Small-ish but noy tiny Synth
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Had a minilogue didn’t like it as much as the Novation Bass station 2 which can be found used for 200 or so. Lots of physical knobs and dials and some of the sounds are really awesome. Def worth a look
Buy my Yamaha Reface CS!
It's 100% the best synth for learning.
It's 100% the best synth for learning.
Ta - the Reface stuff looks good as well.monquixote said:Buy my Yamaha Reface CS!
It's 100% the best synth for learning.
Ideally I need to see what I can get my hands on near me and go from there. I may have half an afternoon to kill in London on Friday. Any good shops worth a visit?
Ah bums - Reface range all have mini keys. I now remember why I dropped them off my shortlist
stickyfiddle said:Ah bums - Reface range all have mini keys. I now remember why I dropped them off my shortlist
Yamaha have the best mini keys though.
minibrute mk1 rock for the money.
I'd suggest a BassStation 2, Arturia Mini Freak, Mini Brute or Behringer MS1.
But if you have Logic then you can do a lot with Alchemy, which is inbuilt.
Native Instruments Reaktor is the best way to learn synths though- but you build the synth from (virtual) components.
But if you have Logic then you can do a lot with Alchemy, which is inbuilt.
Native Instruments Reaktor is the best way to learn synths though- but you build the synth from (virtual) components.
Mini freak is mini keys I thinkstickyfiddle said:Following from @guitargeek62 's thread - what starter synth for adults?
Where do I start? I have an itch for a synth with some proper controls so I can start getting my head around how that stuff works. I currently have a Roland VR730 which is a good-enough piano and great organ but the synth side isn't as good. I think 2 or 3 octaves feels right. I don't want to give up space for more, and 1 always feels like a toy.
Definitely want a real keybed and not a ribbon thing, as part of this is also about encouraging me to actually play keys, so I don't want software and the musical input bit needs to work like a proper keyboard. And def polyphonic please.
I've seen various things recommended - Korg Minilogue XD, Arturia MiniFreak, Behringer MS1. Can anyone point me to the pros & cons & limitations of any of those, and any other good alternatives?
OR... while I'd prefer not to, I'd consider swapping the Roland for something like a Nord if it got me that extra stuff without losing my lovely Hammond sims with drawbars etc.
Minilogue is "slim keys" I think
Behringer ms1 is mono not poly I think
All good, but not sure they fit what you've asked about.
Roland Gaia 2 probably fits the bill.
Modal Cobalt would have been a good option before the company got into trouble.
Behringer pro800 midi'd up to your Roland would give excellent value.
Behringer deepmind worth considering too.
If keys are important the Uno Pro has a Fatar keybed as do the Modals.
They wouldn't be my pick for learning though.
Is a Deep Mind 6 too big?
that’d be the perfect real synth lots of knobs introduction.
that’d be the perfect real synth lots of knobs introduction.
I keep looking at this over the 'kid-friendly' synths and debating if it's worth the jump instead :mrgreen:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-poly-d-analogue-4-voice-polyphonic-synthesizer/
https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-poly-d-analogue-4-voice-polyphonic-synthesizer/
Balls! But ta!horse said:Mini freak is mini keys I thinkstickyfiddle said:Following from @guitargeek62 's thread - what starter synth for adults?
Where do I start? I have an itch for a synth with some proper controls so I can start getting my head around how that stuff works. I currently have a Roland VR730 which is a good-enough piano and great organ but the synth side isn't as good. I think 2 or 3 octaves feels right. I don't want to give up space for more, and 1 always feels like a toy.
Definitely want a real keybed and not a ribbon thing, as part of this is also about encouraging me to actually play keys, so I don't want software and the musical input bit needs to work like a proper keyboard. And def polyphonic please.
I've seen various things recommended - Korg Minilogue XD, Arturia MiniFreak, Behringer MS1. Can anyone point me to the pros & cons & limitations of any of those, and any other good alternatives?
OR... while I'd prefer not to, I'd consider swapping the Roland for something like a Nord if it got me that extra stuff without losing my lovely Hammond sims with drawbars etc.
Minilogue is "slim keys" I think
Behringer ms1 is mono not poly I think
All good, but not sure they fit what you've asked about.
Roland Gaia 2 probably fits the bill.
Modal Cobalt would have been a good option before the company got into trouble.
Behringer pro800 midi'd up to your Roland would give excellent value.
Behringer deepmind worth considering too.
The IK Uno Pro and Modal stuff look neat. I think I need to get my hands on these things to see whether I can deal with the mini/slim keys.
I can at least try the Yamaha and Roland stores tomorrow, and I think I can actually get Arturia stuff in the UAE with free returns (via the Virgin Megastores that still exist here!) so that might be a good starting point if small keys don't make me itch too much
That actually looks ace. I don't make a habit of buying Behringer kit but it could be just the ticketguitargeek62 said:I keep looking at this over the 'kid-friendly' synths and debating if it's worth the jump instead :mrgreen:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-poly-d-analogue-4-voice-polyphonic-synthesizer/
Since I'm unlikely to ever be able to afford a real Minimoog, I've been considering giving in and getting one of these instead. The reviews are generally positive (if you ignore the Behringer grrrr! ones).stickyfiddle said:That actually looks ace. I don't make a habit of buying Behringer kit but it could be just the ticketguitargeek62 said:I keep looking at this over the 'kid-friendly' synths and debating if it's worth the jump instead :mrgreen:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-poly-d-analogue-4-voice-polyphonic-synthesizer/
Yep, the Boog has been on my radar for awhile.
My advice, don't conflate - synths are synths, keys are keys and controllers ... may be the best compromise. Even with decent keybeds etc you are limited to the voices the synth can manage.
I'd say buy a synth to be a synth only, not an emulator. It's not space friendly but 1 board to do it all would be very costly and still full of compromises. Nord or the higher end Yamahas offer this but then you're a hop away from a workstation.
I would consider getting an atruria controller. They come in various shapes and sizes and have good connectivity. the 37 key keystep is good for a mini and offers extras. I think the 49 key keylab has full size bits but fewer features. They can each plug into all manner of soft and hard synths.
I have the YC Reface - much fun and the sounds are good. It's great for noodling or sketching ideas.
Mini keys are not the problem most people think they are.
West Coast flavoured (Buchla inspired) synths don't really use keys at all, going for capacitance input or sequencers.
One of my favourite analogue synths is the Analog Four by Elektron.
It looks like this:
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I've never missed actual keys on it because you don't play keys like you would on a piano.
Synthesis is more about sound design than it is about 'playing'.
You play with tone colour more than you strike notes.
Ruling out a synth because it has mini keys is like ruling out a 2 door sports car because it doesn't have a huge boot.
If that is what you want, buy an SUV, not a sports car.
If you want to play piano, buy a piano.
If you want a synth, buy a synth, play it like a synth, understand what a synth actually is.
It isn't a piano.
Who here can, without using google or chatgpt, give me a description of the components of a subtractive synthesiser, how they fit together to form the instrument?
This is the stuff to know..
What about additive, FM, AM, ring modulation, wavetable etc?
Knowing how this stuff fits together is more important than buying a keyboard with the right sized keys.
West Coast flavoured (Buchla inspired) synths don't really use keys at all, going for capacitance input or sequencers.
One of my favourite analogue synths is the Analog Four by Elektron.
It looks like this:
I've never missed actual keys on it because you don't play keys like you would on a piano.
Synthesis is more about sound design than it is about 'playing'.
You play with tone colour more than you strike notes.
Ruling out a synth because it has mini keys is like ruling out a 2 door sports car because it doesn't have a huge boot.
If that is what you want, buy an SUV, not a sports car.
If you want to play piano, buy a piano.
If you want a synth, buy a synth, play it like a synth, understand what a synth actually is.
It isn't a piano.
Who here can, without using google or chatgpt, give me a description of the components of a subtractive synthesiser, how they fit together to form the instrument?
This is the stuff to know..
What about additive, FM, AM, ring modulation, wavetable etc?
Knowing how this stuff fits together is more important than buying a keyboard with the right sized keys.
They call it a poly, but it's not really - it's what is known a paraphonic in reality, so between a mono and a poly. Still great though.stickyfiddle said:That actually looks ace. I don't make a habit of buying Behringer kit but it could be just the ticketguitargeek62 said:I keep looking at this over the 'kid-friendly' synths and debating if it's worth the jump instead :mrgreen:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-poly-d-analogue-4-voice-polyphonic-synthesizer/
Likewise the Uno synth pro - I like mine but it's not a synth to learn on, and is a paraphonic mono not a poly.
It’s a groovebox and also a monophonic FM synth: I really enjoyed the Electron Model:Cycles. It’s a bit limited in its tonal palette, but it’s got one knob per function, there’s very little menu diving and it’s gives you the power of the Elektron sequencer. I only sold mine to upgrade to a Syntak.
i agree with the above: get a fun synth, then get a keyboard controller if you need it. Desktop (keyboard-less) synths also take up less room
if you want a real left field choice: the Zoia and Beebo both can be synths as well as guitar pedals. You’d need to invest in a good midi controller and do a bit of midi mapping to get the best out of them - but they can be very versatile synth boxes if you’re determined enough. I wouldn’t really recommend this as their primary function, but maybe others have gotten more joy out of it. They’re more aimed at replicating the beep-booping of modular synthesis. However I did find a fair few nice sounding synth patches on the Zoia which I enjoyed
i agree with the above: get a fun synth, then get a keyboard controller if you need it. Desktop (keyboard-less) synths also take up less room
if you want a real left field choice: the Zoia and Beebo both can be synths as well as guitar pedals. You’d need to invest in a good midi controller and do a bit of midi mapping to get the best out of them - but they can be very versatile synth boxes if you’re determined enough. I wouldn’t really recommend this as their primary function, but maybe others have gotten more joy out of it. They’re more aimed at replicating the beep-booping of modular synthesis. However I did find a fair few nice sounding synth patches on the Zoia which I enjoyed
It's the beep-booping and rhythmic sequencing that appeals most to me... I may well steer my boy's first synth more towards a 'proper' type and spend a little extra on it so that I can experiment with it too 
For me it’s mostly about copping classic 70s/80s stuff - but also learning how the various elements affect sound rather than just twiddling virtual knobs and hoping for the best. In aware of the concepts of LFO, VCO, FM, AM etc but no hands-on experience basically.guitargeek62 said:It's the beep-booping and ryhtmic sequencing that appeals most to me... I may well steer my boy's first synth more towards a 'proper' type and spend a little extra on it so that I can experiment with it too ;)
I think I have time for a nose in Westend DJ tomorrow who appear to have a load of stuff including Arturia so will try and have a chat with them and see what feels useful.
ASM Hydrasynth, 3 or 4 octaves.
Just to echo what other people have said.
If you want to get a synthesiser don't look at the specs look at what is on the front panel.
Something like a Reface CS, or a Monologue or a Minibrute it's all there on the front panel on easy to understand knobs
On a lot of synths like the MC-101 you have an insanely powerful synth that you have to program through menu diving on a tiny LCD screen so it's basically a much less powerful and harder to program VST.
Also don't worry about keys. You are often better just sequencing things. For example the Roland S-1 is really powerful and tweaky for something tiny and cheap and can easily be combined with a midi controller. I actually put my modules on top of my electric piano sometimes.
Also if you want some online research material then check out Bad Gear. It's by far my fav synth review channel. He basically gives gear a kicking for all the reasons people complain about it on the internet and then shows that if you are any good you can still make a great track with it:
Here is the Minilogue for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxtMbcpHaY&ab_channel=AudioPilz
If you want to get a synthesiser don't look at the specs look at what is on the front panel.
Something like a Reface CS, or a Monologue or a Minibrute it's all there on the front panel on easy to understand knobs
On a lot of synths like the MC-101 you have an insanely powerful synth that you have to program through menu diving on a tiny LCD screen so it's basically a much less powerful and harder to program VST.
Also don't worry about keys. You are often better just sequencing things. For example the Roland S-1 is really powerful and tweaky for something tiny and cheap and can easily be combined with a midi controller. I actually put my modules on top of my electric piano sometimes.
Also if you want some online research material then check out Bad Gear. It's by far my fav synth review channel. He basically gives gear a kicking for all the reasons people complain about it on the internet and then shows that if you are any good you can still make a great track with it:
Here is the Minilogue for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxtMbcpHaY&ab_channel=AudioPilz
Ok so I spent a good 40 mins in the Roland shop on Denmark St yesterday. Great demo of all the relevant shit from their synth guy so I now have a much better understanding of what’s out there and the pros/cons of each thing. The Jupiter XM is ace, though maybe more than I wanna spend. And the little modular stuff like the JU-06A actually looks brilliant, so maybe something like that with an outboard MIDI keyboard might be a good starting point
But then I saw the War on Drugs in the evening so all bets are off… :D
But then I saw the War on Drugs in the evening so all bets are off… :D
I've been playing with my Roland S-1 today and if you have a midi controller that thing is insane for the price.
A pro quality synth the size and price of a stomp box.
I might be a bit behind the tech curve here but you will struggle to beat a Novation KS for a first / hands on / knob twiddle synth. They did 2 versions (KS4 & KS5) with less / more keys and a rack unit for hooking up a midi key controller of your choice. The Pro's for me are: clear front panel - OSC section / mixer / filter / envelopes / effects which helps understand how all the parameters interact. It's a Chris Hugget design (OSCar) so you are on firm ground in terms of the architecture. Full size good quality keybed so you can play it and interact with it without cramping up.
Downside is that it is VA so you might get a more robust sound from a true analogue but for starting out that's not so critical. The Novation sound is often described as 'Liquid' and this synth does that really well. They are not so desirable now so can be picked up cheap. You can then progress to SuperNova (I&II) if you want absolute best VA of it's era.
That's what I did, Then I bought a Subsequent37 which is a very musical hands on design with a killer sound.
Pro1 is another good 'explains itself' type synth and good for bloops and waterfalls and stuff like that - the Behringer clone would be good.
Isn’t there a knock off or cheap version of a Juno ?
hollywoodrox said:Isn’t there a knock off or cheap version of a Juno ?
The Behringer Deep Mind is Juno based and they've threatened to make a Juno clone.
Roland make a digital clone.
Where do I start? I have an itch for a synth with some proper controls so I can start getting my head around how that stuff works. I currently have a Roland VR730 which is a good-enough piano and great organ but the synth side isn't as good. I think 2 or 3 octaves feels right. I don't want to give up space for more, and 1 always feels like a toy.
Definitely want a real keybed and not a ribbon thing, as part of this is also about encouraging me to actually play keys, so I don't want software and the musical input bit needs to work like a proper keyboard. And def polyphonic please.
I've seen various things recommended - Korg Minilogue XD, Arturia MiniFreak, Behringer MS1. Can anyone point me to the pros & cons & limitations of any of those, and any other good alternatives?
OR... while I'd prefer not to, I'd consider swapping the Roland for something like a Nord if it got me that extra stuff without losing my lovely Hammond sims with drawbars etc.