Another what synth thread.

Probably some overlap with other threads here but still keen to get some specific opinions.  I’ve not owned a synth before, I used a Juno Alpha quite a bit many years ago, it sounded good but user interface wasn’t great.  I had a Nord Electro to cover vintage keys, but happy with VST’s for those now.   But I find Synth VST’s miss the hands on control.  My midi controller (Key station 61) doesn’t have and sliders /  knobs to map and to be honest I’m not really a keys player by trade, so happy to lose some octaves for something that can fit better on my desk and perform a dual function synth and basic controller for VST’s.

 I want something something that can be used for a range of vintage sounds, from Pink Floyd type stuff/general 70’s sounds, to cinematic Vangellis type sounds, general retro etc.

Points of reference - DSOTM, Wish You Were Here, Bladerunner, Blue Monday, Axel F, Human League, Moon Safari, Stranger Things etc.   I’m not looking to nail anything particular, just something that broadly covers some of this territory. Don’t need anything later dance, trance, techno etc, although not a problem if some of those sounds are in there.

I’ll happily get to what I want by experimentation, so I don’t want a romper.  I have the basic analog lab and that sounds good but it's not very configurable.  Also have Xpand2, again, sounds good but not massivly inspired by the vst experience.

Requirements:-

• Around 3 octaves, key size not critical
• Module would be fine, and I’ll get a more synth suitable controller
• Polyphonic, or at least not monophonic
• Arp and basic sequencer
• Ability to save presets would be good
• Hands on control of main functions
• Analog or Analog modelling

Some initial ideas, which also give an idea of budget range:-

• Minilogue XD
• Arturia Minifreak
• Roland Juno Boutique
• Berhringer Poly D
• Hydrasynth Explorer

Would your requirements be satisfied with a better controller?

I’m tempted by the Arturia KeyLab 49 currently.  That, plus the Analog Pro pack (£75 on offer atm) might well tick all those boxes - and a few more on top?

TTony said:

Would your requirements be satisfied with a better controller?

I’m tempted by the Arturia KeyLab 49 currently.  That, plus the Analog Pro pack (£75 on offer atm) might well tick all those boxes - and a few more on top?

Yeah it has crossed my mind.  Would certainly be cheaper and I being from the same brand the mapping of parameters should be pretty slick.  But I'm not sure Arturia Analog actually has many editable parameters, although I might be worng.
I think Analog pro actually comes included with the controller, which is good.

I also like the idea of not being tethered to the PC, but it is something I'll have a think about.

I found this helpful as an overview of the capabilities

https://youtu.be/HVoSUpSG_-k?si=YMxdzZpXl_ALcblf

As Tony says maybe consider getting one of the Arturia controllers as they typically have very good integration with their plugins. 

The same is also true of Native Instruments although I tend not to like their software because it can be a bit janky.

Another shout out for the Reface CS (which I am currently selling)

given your suggestions, Im guessing not some of those I originally had in mind - OB6, P6 as there a lot more expansive.   Some options have no sequencer - so there out too.

Two of the best options would be (in my opinion) Sequentials Take 5 or Obeheim's TEO 5.  Both 3 1/2 octave twin oscillator, 5 voice polys with some FX, nice sequencer and plenty of modulation - BUT they will be be a little pricey based on the synths you listed (£1250 for the Take 5 and £1500 for the Teo 5) and dont come in a desktop version to lessen the financial aspect.  The TEO is too new but the Take 5 you might find used at a price more palatable.  

Behringers UB-Xa desktop is a lot cheaper - and likely in your range (just) - it has everything you want though doesnt have FX.   of course it is an oberheim clone - so if you want something more creamy (in the profit or moog mould) oit may not suit - but in desktop for its a lot of synth for not much money (relatively - £700).  Again though - too new to find a used model really.

All those 3 are analogue synths, though even the Behringer is more than the synths you hlist (though not much more really).

Of the ones you list - the Hydrasynth (though I wasnt that taken) and the Multilogue XD are the best 2 - Id take the Minilogue personally.   The Minilogue sounds better amd has a modulation sequencer as well as a note one - but the HS is more flexible. 

Behringer's Deep Mind 12 in desktop form may be in budget too - and thats probably the pock of them for most things - though the sequencer is a little finicky as its not really a sequencer.  Well it IS but its a control sequencer - meaning you can apply it to notes but also things like filter cutoff so you can get step LFO type sounds, but with programable steps.   Its really useful actually and more  so than most other sequencers on this type of synth BUT it is a little harder to set up for just note based sequencing.   Youd likely need to look into it to see it its something youd be happy testing.  



 

   

TTony said:

Would your requirements be satisfied with a better controller?

I’m tempted by the Arturia KeyLab 49 currently.  That, plus the Analog Pro pack (£75 on offer atm) might well tick all those boxes - and a few more on top?

I think I'm going to allow myself a little more temptation.

Currently I'm using a small controller - 25 keys maybe.  It's fine for sitting on the sofa in an evening (which is why I bought it), but its getting limited for desktop use.

I was thinking of buying the Analog Lab V pack (£75 on offer), plus perhaps the KeyLab Essentials 49/61 keyboard, primarily for ease of integration.

But, the Essentials range looks to be a little more flimsy than the core range.  And the core range comes bundled with the Analog Lab V pack (and some other bits too), which reduces the effective price differential.  So a KeyLab II, probably 49 key version, is looking like the "sensible" option now.

And I'm sure I'm due a birthday, with associated gifts, sometime in the next 12 months ...

And then the Pigments synth - also £75 - because that's been on my to-buy-when-there's-a-deal-on list for a couple of months.

TTony said:

TTony said:

Would your requirements be satisfied with a better controller?

I’m tempted by the Arturia KeyLab 49 currently.  That, plus the Analog Pro pack (£75 on offer atm) might well tick all those boxes - and a few more on top?

I think I'm going to allow myself a little more temptation.

Currently I'm using a small controller - 25 keys maybe.  It's fine for sitting on the sofa in an evening (which is why I bought it), but its getting limited for desktop use.

I was thinking of buying the Analog Lab V pack (£75 on offer), plus perhaps the KeyLab Essentials 49/61 keyboard, primarily for ease of integration.

But, the Essentials range looks to be a little more flimsy than the core range.  And the core range comes bundled with the Analog Lab V pack (and some other bits too), which reduces the effective price differential.  So a KeyLab II, probably 49 key version, is looking like the "sensible" option now.

And I'm sure I'm due a birthday, with associated gifts, sometime in the next 12 months ...

And then the Pigments synth - also £75 - because that's been on my to-buy-when-there's-a-deal-on list for a couple of months.

monquixote said:

Loopop did a very detailed comparison of the regular Vs essentials keylab.

One thing to note is the full version is heavier I think if that matters.

Yup - I watched the Loopop video earlier.  Also working my way through the Arturia tutorials on the KeyLab mk2.  I've been using the free version of the Analog Labs software for the last few months, so their giveaway has worked and sucked me in ;)

Weight isn't an issue as it'll live on my kbd stand, in fact it's probably a positive in terms of robustness.  

TTony said:

TTony said:

Would your requirements be satisfied with a better controller?

I’m tempted by the Arturia KeyLab 49 currently.  That, plus the Analog Pro pack (£75 on offer atm) might well tick all those boxes - and a few more on top?

I think I'm going to allow myself a little more temptation.

Currently I'm using a small controller - 25 keys maybe.  It's fine for sitting on the sofa in an evening (which is why I bought it), but its getting limited for desktop use.

I was thinking of buying the Analog Lab V pack (£75 on offer), plus perhaps the KeyLab Essentials 49/61 keyboard, primarily for ease of integration.

But, the Essentials range looks to be a little more flimsy than the core range.  And the core range comes bundled with the Analog Lab V pack (and some other bits too), which reduces the effective price differential.  So a KeyLab II, probably 49 key version, is looking like the "sensible" option now.

And I'm sure I'm due a birthday, with associated gifts, sometime in the next 12 months ...

And then the Pigments synth - also £75 - because that's been on my to-buy-when-there's-a-deal-on list for a couple of months.

Slightly confused, not helped by the slightly frustrating Arturia website.

But doesn’t the keylab essentials mk3 come with the same version of Analog lab as the keylab mk2?  I.e. the ‘pro’ version?

Also, the screen looks better on the cheaper model, if that means anything.

I think you’re right - the Essentials version *also* includes the 2000+ present version of Analog Lab.  Makes the Essentials controller a bit of a bargain.

Im going to watch the Loopop YT comparison again and think about whether the Essentials version would be the better VFM buy.

And you’re definitely right about the Arturia website.  It’s awful.

One thing to be aware of with Arturia is prices can be lower if you are logged in and you own a load of products already.

paulmapp8306 said:

given your suggestions, Im guessing not some of those I originally had in mind - OB6, P6 as there a lot more expansive.   Some options have no sequencer - so there out too.

Two of the best options would be (in my opinion) Sequentials Take 5 or Obeheim's TEO 5.  Both 3 1/2 octave twin oscillator, 5 voice polys with some FX, nice sequencer and plenty of modulation - BUT they will be be a little pricey based on the synths you listed (£1250 for the Take 5 and £1500 for the Teo 5) and dont come in a desktop version to lessen the financial aspect.  The TEO is too new but the Take 5 you might find used at a price more palatable.  

Behringers UB-Xa desktop is a lot cheaper - and likely in your range (just) - it has everything you want though doesnt have FX.   of course it is an oberheim clone - so if you want something more creamy (in the profit or moog mould) oit may not suit - but in desktop for its a lot of synth for not much money (relatively - £700).  Again though - too new to find a used model really.

All those 3 are analogue synths, though even the Behringer is more than the synths you hlist (though not much more really).

Of the ones you list - the Hydrasynth (though I wasnt that taken) and the Multilogue XD are the best 2 - Id take the Minilogue personally.   The Minilogue sounds better amd has a modulation sequencer as well as a note one - but the HS is more flexible. 

Behringer's Deep Mind 12 in desktop form may be in budget too - and thats probably the pock of them for most things - though the sequencer is a little finicky as its not really a sequencer.  Well it IS but its a control sequencer - meaning you can apply it to notes but also things like filter cutoff so you can get step LFO type sounds, but with programable steps.   Its really useful actually and more  so than most other sequencers on this type of synth BUT it is a little harder to set up for just note based sequencing.   Youd likely need to look into it to see it its something youd be happy testing.  



 

   

Thanks for the info, plenty to consider here.  The top 2 do look great, but not sure I could justify.

I was swaying back towards the controller route as a starting point, after the suggestion from @TTony but after losing a whole evening yesterday to various VST issues with Expand2 and Analog V, I remebered why I wanted a physical synth in the first place!  Plus I like the idea of just laying audio down rather than endless midi tweaking.

I think getting out trying a few is the next thing with the minilogue XD at the top of the list.

I rewatched the comparison between the keylab mk2 and the essentials mk3, double checked the software package that was bundled with both, and decided that - at £166 - the essentials mk3 will do me just fine.

Thanks to menamestom for pointing out that the Lab V bundle comes with the cheaper hardware!

And now, having previously reconciled myself to spending £400 on the mk2 option, I'm now thinking I've got >£200 left over ...
:D

Mapping to a controller never feels like the real thing.

Out of the synths you list I'd suggest the Poly D but I'd probably suggest going for something like a used Novation Ultranova.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/81085232-novation-ultranova-37-key-20-voice-synthesizer-2010-blue
37 keys, 20 voices, will do everything you want.
£250.

Whatever you do get, buy used.
There are so many bargains out there.

TTony said:

I rewatched the comparison between the keylab mk2 and the essentials mk3, double checked the software package that was bundled with both, and decided that - at £166 - the essentials mk3 will do me just fine.

Thanks to menamestom for pointing out that the Lab V bundle comes with the cheaper hardware!

And now, having previously reconciled myself to spending £400 on the mk2 option, I'm now thinking I've got >£200 left over ...
:D

Great, let me know how it goes.  I'll probably grab one when I get back from holiday, even though I'll get a hardware synth, these are a no brainer for what you get and I can probably sell my old controller to make the upgrade around £100.

octatonic said:

Mapping to a controller never feels like the real thing.

Out of the synths you list I'd suggest the Poly D but I'd probably suggest going for something like a used Novation Ultranova.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/81085232-novation-ultranova-37-key-20-voice-synthesizer-2010-blue
37 keys, 20 voices, will do everything you want.
£250.

Whatever you do get, buy used.
There are so many bargains out there.

Thanks, looks good.  Yeah I think used makes the most sense, some great bargains if you know what to go for.  Will look into the ultranova.

TTony said:

I rewatched the comparison between the keylab mk2 and the essentials mk3, double checked the software package that was bundled with both, and decided that - at £166 - the essentials mk3 will do me just fine.

Thanks to menamestom for pointing out that the Lab V bundle comes with the cheaper hardware!

And now, having previously reconciled myself to spending £400 on the mk2 option, I'm now thinking I've got >£200 left over ...
:D

Did you get the keylab in the end @TTony ?

I’m thinking of the MPC key 37 now, it should itch some synth scratches but also interested in a different workflow.  I figure I can use it as a midi controller, beat maker, sampler and also trigger external synths modules at a later date.

menamestom said:

Did you get the keylab in the end @TTony ?

I’m thinking of the MPC key 37 now, it should itch some synth scratches but also interested in a different workflow.  I figure I can use it as a midi controller, beat maker, sampler and also trigger external synths modules at a later date.

Decorativeed said:

menamestom said:

Did you get the keylab in the end @TTony ?

I’m thinking of the MPC key 37 now, it should itch some synth scratches but also interested in a different workflow.  I figure I can use it as a midi controller, beat maker, sampler and also trigger external synths modules at a later date.

I picked up both the Keylab Essential Mk3 49 and the Keystep 37 recently for £100 each - the keystep has smaller keys, but feels like a really quality piece of kit and is loads of fun and very handy to have close by when you're at your PC.

The KL Essential is very lightweight and flimsy, but does have full size keys and obviously the extra octave. 

If you've already got the Arturia software, you can use the Keystep as a controller, although it can't make use of the sliders and encoders in the same way as the Keylab. Where it comes into its own is with the inbuilt arpeggiator, strum and chord modes.

Also - if there are bits of the synths in Analogue Lab you want to get more control over, all of the individual VST instruments can be downloaded and run pretty much without restrictions other than a time limit, so it's really good for seeing whether you want to splash out on the V Collection next time there's a sale on.

Personally I wouldn't bother with V Collection.

I bought it thinking it would be amazing and it's just kind of annoying. I'd take a modern synth like Diva, Dune, or Pigments over the whole lot with the exception of things like the acoustic pianos so on, but I don't think that's why most people buy them.

Ah really? I've owned a few of the instruments modelled in the V Collection, and these are the best digital versions I've found. Now, when I want to record an MS-20, Vox Continental or Farfisa Compact, I don't need to break my back setting it up, and I can leave my soldering iron in the box.

I suppose if you're after something more modern, Pigments is probably all you need. 

Decorativeed said:

Ah really? I've owned a few of the instruments modelled in the V Collection, and these are the best digital versions I've found. Now, when I want to record an MS-20, Vox Continental or Farfisa Compact, I don't need to break my back setting it up, and I can leave my soldering iron in the box.

I suppose if you're after something more modern, Pigments is probably all you need. 

I think with something like a Farfisa or Clavinet then absolutely and also if it's precisely the sound of. Juno, MS20 etc you want then fine, but personally I've found that:

• Working with a fake hardware interface is annoying compared to working with a UI thats designed from the ground up to work on a computer
• Often you end up getting annoyed by the limitations of the modelled synth. What if I want a Juno, but with an MS20 filter. With Diva I can do that. 
• If I do want a modelled synth then I don't find the Arturia ones to be the best ones because they are often quite CPU hungry and aren't the best sounding. I've found Synapse audio (Who do a Moog and a Oberheim), or U-He (Who make a Prophet) to be the best for that.

I mention it because I spend several hundred pounds on V Collection and basically never use it other than for occasional Piano and Organ sounds and for that I would have been better off with Pianoteq or Organteq.

I'll look into those. I must admit to not having heard of a few of them.

Personally, I downloaded warez versions of lots of VSTs, and the only ones I kept going back to were Arturia's. As soon as I could afford to, I bought the official versions. 

They certainly aren't bad I just don't use them much compared to other things and probably wouldn't buy them again.

I've decided I'm going to go for the MPC key 37.  It has soft synths, and can buy additional premium ones for it (I think you get a voucher for one, so I'll get the model D Moog type and then buy the Juno).

This won't necesarrily scratch the real itch for a synth, but it means I can have some fun away from the DAW with a different workflow (been working on cubase for years) and I can always use it as a controller.  But then at some point I can use it to control hardware synth modules, so it can be a hub to control other things.

MPC 3.0 is coming out soon also, which opens the platform up a bit, but I fancy working on some more sample based stuff anyway.

Decorativeed said:

I'll look into those. I must admit to not having heard of a few of them.

Personally, I downloaded warez versions of lots of VSTs, and the only ones I kept going back to were Arturia's. As soon as I could afford to, I bought the official versions. 

U-He are great (Repro for Prophet and Diva for - anything really).  Other top notch VSTs - a level or two above the arturia stuff - GForce (anything Oberheim) and Soft tube (Model 84 for the Juno 6, Model 80 for Prophet) Model 72 (minimoog), Model 82 (SH101).

Cherry Audio are on par with Arturia  - some are slightly better.   They do a nice CS80 VST  and an elka which is very unusual.  

@TTony 

The keylab has just been updated https://youtu.be/_ti5u4O-Pyg?si=JM-08Seziy1XxU7q