I feel Crushed and Stupid..I thought I was starting to sound quite Jazzy..

A lot of info here to re read and absorb..Thanks..I have also tried to join a Jazz Jamming Group..I can do the rhythm bit not too bad,,so hopefully if accepted I won't be a total Liability..I think this is a huge step in the right direction if I manage it..I just hope it isn't too far away as my health is not great..This would limit things..

KevS said:

A lot of info here to re read and absorb..Thanks..I have also tried to join a Jazz Jamming Group..I can do the rhythm bit not too bad,,so hopefully if accepted I won't be a total Liability..I think this is a huge step in the right direction if I manage it..I just hope it isn't too far away as my health is not great..This would limit things..

You should never be a liability - They should be there to help with a mutual process whereby you all learn and improve - Plus more importantly enjoy

KevS said:

A lot of info here to re read and absorb..Thanks..I have also tried to join a Jazz Jamming Group..I can do the rhythm bit not too bad,,so hopefully if accepted I won't be a total Liability..I think this is a huge step in the right direction if I manage it..I just hope it isn't too far away as my health is not great..This would limit things..

I`m 51 and a pretty competent blues rock player - always wanted to play more jazz.

This week I bought this after watching a YT interview with the man himself - didn`t even know he played Jazz tbh.

It`s not a cheap book, but it`s the most comprehensive course I`ve found so far, that presents information clearly and has downloadable audio to hear what it`s supposed to sound like, and more importantly practice with.

I reckon it`s a good couple of yrs work here for me - but I`m going to give it a go and take what I can!

newi123 said:

KevS said:

A lot of info here to re read and absorb..Thanks..I have also tried to join a Jazz Jamming Group..I can do the rhythm bit not too bad,,so hopefully if accepted I won't be a total Liability..I think this is a huge step in the right direction if I manage it..I just hope it isn't too far away as my health is not great..This would limit things..

I`m 51 and a pretty competent blues rock player - always wanted to play more jazz.

This week I bought this after watching a YT interview with the man himself - didn`t even know he played Jazz tbh.

It`s not a cheap book, but it`s the most comprehensive course I`ve found so far, that presents information clearly and has downloadable audio to hear what it`s supposed to sound like, and more importantly practice with.

I reckon it`s a good couple of yrs work here for me - but I`m going to give it a go and take what I can!

I've just bought the same book. :)

OK,,I have bought the Wolf Marshall book..I bought it on Kindle and downloaded Amazon Kindle..My eyesight has gone,so I can magnify it big time on my Macbook screen..I have found out it doesn't come with the audio though..That is a pity..It wasn't much less than actual physical book price,it is a lot easier to use though..The single note lines would have been better with Audio..It was one or the other really..

KevS said:

OK,,I have bought the Wolf Marshall book..I bought it on Kindle and downloaded Amazon Kindle..My eyesight has gone,so I can magnify it big time on my Macbook screen..I have found out it doesn't come with the audio though..That is a pity..It wasn't much less than actual physical book price,it is a lot easier to use though..The single note lines would have been better with Audio..It was one or the other really..

Do you not have a code to access the audio on the Hal Leonard site? On the printed version it's on the very first page so double check that you haven't missed it.

I've posted this before on another thread - But in someways this reminds me of a great way to improvise around the theme/melody, but allows additional phrases as and when required

Glen is not often notes as a jazz musician. amongst his many great attributes - Maybe this is not pure jazz as it has country + blue grass in there - But it swings and has a simple vibe about with a chord progression that just keeps rotating around itself - So nothing complex - But if I could get close to this I'd be happy - Yet playing around the melody, then you know you have a base to work from - solo kicks in around 2mins, but best to hear it all 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp30Z1PIT-Y

And then this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAwAEj6Mdbw

Larry Carlton with Tal Farlow - Again so much is improvised around the melody 

LC frustrates me many times - He is without doubt one of the finest guitar players on planet earth - But so much of his solo work, has no melody/tune - IMO - Certainly nothing catchy to whistle back after - A mass of cascading licks and tricks - Very skilful, technically wise - But I much prefer him in this mode - As he shows in this, you can come away from the melody for a solo as required, but he is clever enough for you to keep hearing snippets of it - Yet so much of the song revolves around the melody in Larry's way (and Tal's) 

DonnyMac said:

KevS said:

OK,,I have bought the Wolf Marshall book..I bought it on Kindle and downloaded Amazon Kindle..My eyesight has gone,so I can magnify it big time on my Macbook screen..I have found out it doesn't come with the audio though..That is a pity..It wasn't much less than actual physical book price,it is a lot easier to use though..The single note lines would have been better with Audio..It was one or the other really..

Do you not have a code to access the audio on the Hal Leonard site? On the printed version it's on the very first page so double check that you haven't missed it.

Will do,,thanks..

Feel free to ignore my contribution, but from my perspective it looks like you are obsessing on learning all the theory and see that as the goal.  You appear to be panicking that you have "wasted your time" learning the collossal (to me) amount of theory because you will never "be a jazz guitarist" unless you've learned it all.

I think you should focus more on the enjoyment of playing - of jamming with others - because that really is what playing and music is all about - enjoyment.  The theory is merely the technical explanation of it.  Exploring and experimentation is where the art lies.  Try things - find stuff that pleases your ear then dissect them to find out the technicalities of what it's called and why it works etc - not the other way around.

George Benson is one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time. Now listen to him trying to explain theory or why he plays something a certain way. He's living proof there's much more to music than theory.

We all feel stupid every once in a while. This is from Ben Monder's upcoming triple album. Track is called Ataraxia and this is the comping for the guitar solo. 

carlos said:

George Benson is one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time. Now listen to him trying to explain theory or why he plays something a certain way. He's living proof there's much more to music than theory.

Don’t disagree with the overall sentiment, but that’s a bit of an unfair yardstick no? :smile: I think if anything, Benson is living proof of the old adage “the best players don’t always make the best teachers” :wink:

Being less facetious though, there is so much gold when you hear Benson speak more broadly on playing (and other players) and it’s all the same stuff detailed in this thread. 

Brad said:

carlos said:

George Benson is one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time. Now listen to him trying to explain theory or why he plays something a certain way. He's living proof there's much more to music than theory.

Don’t disagree with the overall sentiment, but that’s a bit of an unfair yardstick no? :smile: I think if anything, Benson is living proof of the old adage “the best players don’t always make the best teachers” :wink:

I distinctly remember him trying to explain some of his note choices and he messed it up. Got the chords wrong, the progression wrong, etc. He knows what to play from decades at it plus his talent, but I have a hard time believing he knows why it works. If anything he's the proof of the general sentiment in this thread.

carlos said:

Brad said:

carlos said:

George Benson is one of the greatest jazz guitarists of all time. Now listen to him trying to explain theory or why he plays something a certain way. He's living proof there's much more to music than theory.

Don’t disagree with the overall sentiment, but that’s a bit of an unfair yardstick no? :smile: I think if anything, Benson is living proof of the old adage “the best players don’t always make the best teachers” :wink:

I distinctly remember him trying to explain some of his note choices and he messed it up. Got the chords wrong, the progression wrong, etc. He knows what to play from decades at it plus his talent, but I have a hard time believing he knows why it works. If anything he's the proof of the general sentiment in this thread.

GB has such a staggeringly good ear he probably internalises the sounds and understands it much more quickly that way.  I think I may have seen the same video where he forgets the name of a note for while. He can hear some very complex harmony in his head (probably helps he’s a great singer) whereas I have to rely on theory to help apply say 7susb9 type sounds.  Such a different approach to teaching than say Pat Martino. 

https://youtu.be/bE_-ZvHjFfY?si=UQZQfPVRIA51MOSp

I always remember watching this with Birelli Lagrene....I think it sums the whole thing up to be honest 

carlos said:

I distinctly remember him trying to explain some of his note choices and he messed it up. Got the chords wrong, the progression wrong, etc.

We all make mistakes, even George :wink: I’ve heard him talk freely about chord types, intervals, superimposing changes. I’ve no doubt he knows more than he’s generally able to explain. But he’s not a teacher, so why would he?

carlos said:

He knows what to play from decades at it plus his talent, but I have a hard time believing he knows why it works.

That’s my point. He still knows what to play and he had to learn actual things. Take the penultimate bar of his solo on the transcription I shared, the 1 bar ii-V. He plays a Dm7 arpeggio over ii and an Abm arp over V. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that he would not have been thinking “right, here comes G7, let’s have some Super Locrian”, that he probably doesn’t know what Super Locrian is and that an Abm arpeggio can be derived from it. 

Barney said:

I always remember watching this with Birelli Lagrene....I think it sums the whole thing up to be honest 

But again, it’s Bireli!!!

I have read it being claimed that Chet Baker didn’t know what any of the notes were…at all… barely practised, yet he’s one of the greatest, melodic improvisors (and singers… there’s a pattern here ) ever. Go figure…

guitars4you said:

I've posted this before on another thread - But in someways this reminds me of a great way to improvise around the theme/melody, but allows additional phrases as and when required

Glen is not often notes as a jazz musician. amongst his many great attributes - Maybe this is not pure jazz as it has country + blue grass in there - But it swings and has a simple vibe about with a chord progression that just keeps rotating around itself - So nothing complex - But if I could get close to this I'd be happy - Yet playing around the melody, then you know you have a base to work from - solo kicks in around 2mins, but best to hear it all 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp30Z1PIT-Y

Have a wiz because I have grown to love Glen as a guitarist given he was more noted for his singing as I was growing up through the 70s and early 80s.