My First Bass Guitar

Yay good for you!!! 

Oh nice! =)  I think that one was on offer on one of Thomann's big sales there not that long ago, I just about managed to resist...

OilCityPickups said:

Yay good for you!!! 

Thank you. I'm continuing in the excitement of having a new thing in my life today too.

Dave_Mc said:

Oh nice! =)  I think that one was on offer on one of Thomann's big sales there not that long ago, I just about managed to resist...

Thank you. It's solid and heavy. When I first picked it up I thought it might be plastic with the weight and finish, but when you rest it's base on a stool and press your ear against the body and play it, it has a deep deep sound.

Definitely a good investment if you have an open fire because if you don't like it it will heat the house for weeks.

Now that I own a bass guitar I've noticed that when I talk about it, while saying the words 'bass guitar' I waggle my thumb side to side in an attempt to subliminally gaslight listeners into thinking I am a funky player of some considerable talent.

oooo I do like a thunderbirdy shaped object, thats lovely and has inspired me to pick up the bass again

spev11 said:

oooo I do like a thunderbirdy shaped object, thats lovely and has inspired me to pick up the bass again

Me too. Good stuff.

Al_Nico said:

Dave_Mc said:

Oh nice! =)  I think that one was on offer on one of Thomann's big sales there not that long ago, I just about managed to resist...

Thank you. It's solid and heavy. When I first picked it up I thought it might be plastic with the weight and finish, but when you rest it's base on a stool and press your ear against the body and play it, it has a deep deep sound.

Definitely a good investment if you have an open fire because if you don't like it it will heat the house for weeks.

Oh nice, the pics weren't there when I posted yesterday, that looks awesome  =)

Now you mention it, I think the weight might be one of the things that put me off chancing one- most of the reviews and Youtube videos I saw mentioned the weight.

Dave_Mc said:

Oh nice, the pics weren't there when I posted yesterday, that looks awesome  =)

Now you mention it, I think the weight might be one of the things that put me off chancing one- most of the reviews and Youtube videos I saw mentioned the weight.

Thanks. It's got a strong look. I don't have a reference for how much a bass might weigh. The body has nothing carved away yet the neck outweighs it on a shoulder strap. Having said that, no compromise in mass makes it lively, and the strap is so taught the sound vibrates my neck. Lovin' it.

BillDL said:

That was a really good impulse purchase.  Yes, inspired by the Gibson / Epiphone Thunderbird but obviously with "metal" players in mind.  It should be quite versatile given that it has a coil split switch on the volume control for both pickups, separate tone controls for each pickup, and active electronics on board.

Okoume body, Mahogany neck, Blackwood (man-made composite material?) fretboard, 20 frets, 34" scale, 0.045 - 0.105" strings, Roswell GB4 Mini Humbuckers (M56101).

Everybody needs a bass.  I know what you mean when you talk about the whole thing vibrating like it does compared with a normal 6-string guitar.  It's a very earthy and "primitive" feel.

Earthy and primitive describes my normal electric bass playing perfectly :-)  

I really like Thunderbird basses (and their clones/imitators) ... bit of my 'Entwistle envy' coming out ... 

Al_Nico said:

Dave_Mc said:

Oh nice, the pics weren't there when I posted yesterday, that looks awesome 

Now you mention it, I think the weight might be one of the things that put me off chancing one- most of the reviews and Youtube videos I saw mentioned the weight.

Thanks. It's got a strong look. I don't have a reference for how much a bass might weigh. The body has nothing carved away yet the neck outweighs it on a shoulder strap. Having said that, no compromise in mass makes it lively, and the strap is so taught the sound vibrates my neck. Lovin' it.

I'm much more a guitar player than a bass player (cynics would say I'm not much of a guitar player!), but for me, about a pound more for a bass than a guitar is about right. For me ~7lb for a guitar is great, 8lb is ok. I'd prefer basses to be as light as guitars, but being practical, they rarely are! Under 9lb is better for a bass, though the weight distribution affects it a lot too.

Neck dive is annoying, it makes the bass feel a lot heavier. I'm sure I've said this already somewhere else on the forum recently, but the Neotech straps are great for making the instrument feel lighter. However, Comfort Strapps, while I didn't find them just as good for (perceived) weight reduction as Neotech, seemed a little better for neck heaviness.

BillDL said:

That was a really good impulse purchase.  Yes, inspired by the Gibson / Epiphone Thunderbird but obviously with "metal" players in mind.  It should be quite versatile given that it has a coil split switch on the volume control for both pickups, separate tone controls for each pickup, and active electronics on board.

I think it has a bit of a strange control layout, it doesn't seem to have a volume per pickup? That was another thing that concerned me a little, although if you were really worried it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to passive with individual volume controls.

Dave_Mc said:

Neck dive is annoying, it makes the bass feel a lot heavier. I'm sure I've said this already somewhere else on the forum recently, but the Neotech straps are great for making the instrument feel lighter. However, Comfort Strapps, while I didn't find them just as good for (perceived) weight reduction as Neotech, seemed a little better for neck heaviness.

- I looked up Neotech. They look good. Thanks for that. I like the look of their super strap. The other problem is the position of the strap button. I will likely put one directly behind the last dot on the fret board. They put it where an LP has it, but the body slopes back so it's at an angle ready to fall out without locks, and about two inches too far back. I moved the strap button on my Jackson V forward 2 inches onto the top front neck screw. That balances now.

BillDL said:

That was a really good impulse purchase.  Yes, inspired by the Gibson / Epiphone Thunderbird but obviously with "metal" players in mind.  It should be quite versatile given that it has a coil split switch on the volume control for both pickups, separate tone controls for each pickup, and active electronics on board.

I think it has a bit of a strange control layout, it doesn't seem to have a volume per pickup? That was another thing that concerned me a little, although if you were really worried it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to passive with individual volume controls.

What they've done is wired it so both pickups are on, then there's a pull switch on the volume that turns off the bridge pickup. The pickups loaded have a small output compared to my guitars. I don't know if basses work with high output pickups? The sound I'm getting is solid, like you expect from active pickups, but also very articulate. With compression to level the output it seems easy to keep an even weight of sound. I've been looking at the EMG's but there are loads and I don't know how they might compare so will wait until I've got a bit more understanding of the machine.

BillDL said:

That was a really good impulse purchase.  Yes, inspired by the Gibson / Epiphone Thunderbird but obviously with "metal" players in mind.  It should be quite versatile given that it has a coil split switch on the volume control for both pickups, separate tone controls for each pickup, and active electronics on board.

Okoume body, Mahogany neck, Blackwood (man-made composite material?) fretboard, 20 frets, 34" scale, 0.045 - 0.105" strings, Roswell GB4 Mini Humbuckers (M56101).

Everybody needs a bass.  I know what you mean when you talk about the whole thing vibrating like it does compared with a normal 6-string guitar.  It's a very earthy and "primitive" feel.

Thank you. Blackwood is very smooth with a matt finish. On close inspection it looks like composite based on the absence of a grain pattern, but it is so black it's hard to tell?

When I bought it I had been struggling with bass guitar VSTs and wanted a change from synth bass. I'd used a friends active jazz bass before and liked the way active captured the low end and this one has good low end too but a bit too much in the low mid, and bit low in the high mid. The tone changes a lot depending how I play it so it could be me yet.

These days I would far rather have a good composite material for the fretboard than some of the sub-standard very grained and pitted rosewood that's being built into a lot of the sub-£400 guitars.  Most of the Pau Ferro is nice and smooth and dense, and some of the Amaranth (Purple Heart) I've had on a couple of guitars has been great, but it's hit and miss and a good composite resembles ebony, is consistently dense and smooth, and is stiff enough to retain any sonic characters that might be inflected by hardwood as a fretboard.

BillDL said:

These days I would far rather have a good composite material for the fretboard than some of the sub-standard very grained and pitted rosewood that's being built into a lot of the sub-£400 guitars.  Most of the Pau Ferro is nice and smooth and dense, and some of the Amaranth (Purple Heart) I've had on a couple of guitars has been great, but it's hit and miss and a good composite resembles ebony, is consistently dense and smooth, and is stiff enough to retain any sonic characters that might be inflected by hardwood as a fretboard.

The frets are finished well and all the frets play cleanly. The neck is so thin? Do basses have thin necks in general. Look, it's hardly thicker than a common or garden pole.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a1r6gzdgf8v4u08vp1wp7/thinneck.jpg?rlkey=pu78pedhfxt9v7pm6xs9rja1w&st=tt24bfyr&raw=1

Here's what I had in mind when I got the bass.
https://soundcloud.com/jasonaudiouk/excercise-1-a?si=915cc692e1584e92bf78c5b8846753ff&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

well, it sounded better in my head.

Al_Nico said:

Here's what I had in mind when I got the bass.
https://soundcloud.com/jasonaudiouk/excercise-1-a?si=915cc692e1584e92bf78c5b8846753ff&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

well, it sounded better in my head.

Excellent

OilCityPickups said:

Excellent

Thank you.

Al_Nico said:

Dave_Mc said:

Neck dive is annoying, it makes the bass feel a lot heavier. I'm sure I've said this already somewhere else on the forum recently, but the Neotech straps are great for making the instrument feel lighter. However, Comfort Strapps, while I didn't find them just as good for (perceived) weight reduction as Neotech, seemed a little better for neck heaviness.

- I looked up Neotech. They look good. Thanks for that. I like the look of their super strap. The other problem is the position of the strap button. I will likely put one directly behind the last dot on the fret board. They put it where an LP has it, but the body slopes back so it's at an angle ready to fall out without locks, and about two inches too far back. I moved the strap button on my Jackson V forward 2 inches onto the top front neck screw. That balances now.

BillDL said:

That was a really good impulse purchase.  Yes, inspired by the Gibson / Epiphone Thunderbird but obviously with "metal" players in mind.  It should be quite versatile given that it has a coil split switch on the volume control for both pickups, separate tone controls for each pickup, and active electronics on board.

I think it has a bit of a strange control layout, it doesn't seem to have a volume per pickup? That was another thing that concerned me a little, although if you were really worried it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to passive with individual volume controls.

What they've done is wired it so both pickups are on, then there's a pull switch on the volume that turns off the bridge pickup. The pickups loaded have a small output compared to my guitars. I don't know if basses work with high output pickups? The sound I'm getting is solid, like you expect from active pickups, but also very articulate. With compression to level the output it seems easy to keep an even weight of sound. I've been looking at the EMG's but there are loads and I don't know how they might compare so will wait until I've got a bit more understanding of the machine.

Oh I see, there was some confusion online about what the push-pull actually did! That's not perfect, but it's a lot more useful than a lot of the things people were saying it did!

I'm not actually sure about the output of bass pickups- I've never really compared them head-to-head into the same amp with a guitar. I just assumed they were roughly equivalent since the number of turns (at least on the classic models) and resistance seem to be similar, but that may not be the case at all, because I think it takes a lot more wattage when it comes to amps to amplify the lower bass frequencies.

Dave_Mc said:

Oh I see, there was some confusion online about what the push-pull actually did! That's not perfect, but it's a lot more useful than a lot of the things people were saying it did!

I'm not actually sure about the output of bass pickups- I've never really compared them head-to-head into the same amp with a guitar. I just assumed they were roughly equivalent since the number of turns (at least on the classic models) and resistance seem to be similar, but that may not be the case at all, because I think it takes a lot more wattage when it comes to amps to amplify the lower bass frequencies.

It does seem a bit restricted,. Bass and treble pots are best left alone. However, I have a drill and soldering iron, a book on electrical circuits, nerves of steel, and space for a selector switch. More research needed yet tho.

The last bass guitarist I worked with in a wedding band used a Trace Elliot head with matching 1 x 15 and 2 x 10 cabs. About 1200w. I've had experience of players using, Marshall, and Ampeg rigs that I've played with and I liked the punch that the Trace Elliot had. Liked the Ampeg and 8 x 10 cabs and the growl they get too but I will probably go for TE because of the way the thing could deliver low end. I've only played bass in rehearsals before for fun and badly, but I'm revving up to get on stage with one before too long.

Old Trace Elliots are cheap now because no-one wants bass amps that weigh as much as a house any more. They do have some reliability issues, but are easy to work on and use simple and easily replaceable components.

ICBM said:

Old Trace Elliots are cheap now because no-one wants bass amps that weigh as much as a house any more. They do have some reliability issues, but are easy to work on and use simple and easily replaceable components.

Thanks I'll look into the reliability thing. Trace Elliot are making things modular to build a system the right size for the occasion. They have these tiny high powered amps that seem to work but they appear to defy physics in terms of tiny internal power supply?

Al_Nico said:

Trace Elliot are making things modular to build a system the right size for the occasion. They have these tiny high powered amps that seem to work but they appear to defy physics in terms of tiny internal power supply?

They use switch-mode supplies which don’t need a large transformer, and often Class D power amps which are small and light for their rated power.

They don’t sound anywhere near as loud for their rated power as an old-school amp with a big transformer and filter caps though - the reasons for that are complex, but real.

They also have reliability issues, especially in the longer term, and are much more difficult to repair if they do fail - and not economically in a lot of cases, unless replacement complete circuit modules (ie a separate power supply or power amp board) are available. Repairs at component level are much harder.

I have a 500W 1x10” combo which is lighter than my old Fender Bassman 50W head. But the Fender is still louder, even than the little amp going through the same big speaker cab... it sounds impossible, but it’s really true.

ICBM said:

Al_Nico said:

Trace Elliot are making things modular to build a system the right size for the occasion. They have these tiny high powered amps that seem to work but they appear to defy physics in terms of tiny internal power supply?

They use switch-mode supplies which don’t need a large transformer, and often Class D power amps which are small and light for their rated power.

They don’t sound anywhere near as loud for their rated power as an old-school amp with a big transformer and filter caps though - the reasons for that are complex, but real.

They also have reliability issues, especially in the longer term, and are much more difficult to repair if they do fail - and not economically in a lot of cases, unless replacement complete circuit modules (ie a separate power supply or power amp board) are available. Repairs at component level are much harder.

I have a 500W 1x10” combo which is lighter than my old Fender Bassman 50W head. But the Fender is still louder, even than the little amp going through the same big speaker cab... it sounds impossible, but it’s really true.

It's Amstrad back to haunt us? I worked as test tech for Meridian Audio years ago. The power supplies in their gear used enormous doughnut transformers and amps with less than 0.0025% THD. Systems had flat frequency response all the way to scary loud.

I would soak test amps flat out overnight driving sine waves through them into a large 8 ohm resistor bolted to a heatsink. I wonder if an amp with switch mode PSU would pass?

 Is your 1x10 a Trace Elliot? Which one do you like the sound and feel (not weight) of best ? Can you DI the Fender? Thanks.

Al_Nico said:

Dave_Mc said:

Oh I see, there was some confusion online about what the push-pull actually did! That's not perfect, but it's a lot more useful than a lot of the things people were saying it did!

I'm not actually sure about the output of bass pickups- I've never really compared them head-to-head into the same amp with a guitar. I just assumed they were roughly equivalent since the number of turns (at least on the classic models) and resistance seem to be similar, but that may not be the case at all, because I think it takes a lot more wattage when it comes to amps to amplify the lower bass frequencies.

It does seem a bit restricted,. Bass and treble pots are best left alone. However, I have a drill and soldering iron, a book on electrical circuits, nerves of steel, and space for a selector switch. More research needed yet tho.

I don't have a drill, but I can solder badly! If you can drill it should be pretty easy to just add a balance pot, or a second volume pot, even with the existing active electronics.

Al_Nico said:

It's Amstrad back to haunt us?

Ha, yes - I remember "Peak Music Power Output" too - otherwise known as Pure Bullshit Power Output :).

The power ratings of Class D/SMPS kit aren't quite like that because you can meter them and get the claimed power - but they lack something in the way it's delivered, the dynamics and lower damping of Class AB solid-state with a transformer power supply, and especially valve amps with their ability to be softly overdriven without sounding obviously distorted, really do leave them in the dust, especially in a band mix.

Al_Nico said:

 Is your 1x10 a Trace Elliot? Which one do you like the sound and feel (not weight) of best ? Can you DI the Fender? Thanks.

No, it's an Ibanez Promethean - the earlier and much better 5110 model. It does a pretty good job for something so small and light, but the Fender just sounds *miles* better - and I'm not a valve snob at all, I love solid-state amps too, but this old thing just sounds incredible. (If you like a thick, slightly overdriven sound - it doesn't do that modern loud clean punch.) Yes, you can DI it - or in fact any amp with a speaker output, FX send, or dedicated line out... you just need the right kind of external box to give the desk the right signal level and sound.

I did have a couple of Trace Elliots years ago - they were very good, although still surprisingly heavy even at the time! I'm also a big fan of the Ampeg B2R/SVT450 - the same thing in either a rackmount or a pseudo-SVT valve head format - which are immense-sounding pure solid-state amps - but as heavy as the Fender, although still much less than an original SVT.

And yes, if I have the option to request any bass amp at a big gig when I don't have to own it, service it or transport it there myself, I would still choose an SVT with the refrigerator 8x10" cabinet. 'Only' 300W, but they will hear you in the next time zone...

Thanks everyone for your feedback and info. All very useful.

Hi.

I've been struggling with my lovely Harley Benton. The action was a bit high but it was adjusted as low as it could go.

After hammering the posts home it was still hurting my pinkies to play. When I took the strings off I pulled the nut off too. That saved the worry of splitting something getting that off so with my new pack of files I set to work creating my own custom setup.

I started with the nut. I know the plastic disappears quickly with a diamond file so went gently and re-fitted often to test. I maybe could have gone a squeak more on the middle strings but this stuff makes me nervous.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4dabcae8wmbsvxx4f909w/20240930_191318.jpg?rlkey=kak1700yfftswu76g05z84b7g&st=tvosirl7&raw=1

The bridge got the same treatment except it takes a while to file metal. So with lots test and filing I ended up with a really comfortable setup. It doesn't look like it but they are very snug, no buzzing.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8ggcjktkudg882l8k5oph/20240930_190843.jpg?rlkey=g3agvz9k531avh4dki9trwc2i&st=skcxvsmh&raw=1

(It wasn't me who butchered the front mounting screw. That was probably the previous owner desperately trying to lower the action)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e2ghpy2bfq0w39uj92omk/20240930_190653.jpg?rlkey=8md5kqyd18p6pl9h0sn0hpddo&st=mihreydz&raw=1

I have brushed those filings away now. It plays well. Much less effort and buzz free if you're careful :)