Learning Jazz, 17 new chord shapes, any help?!
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I like Jens Larsen's explanation which is to think of the basic chord and then all the notes you play in the bar are just additional notes. Yes, technically you can write out each chord plus melody note as a different chord but for some it helps to keep it simple: chord plus melody (and/or bass notes). In time your curiosity will lead you to want to know what chords these are, such as A7 plus a B is A9, Am7 plus an Eb is Am7b5, just to give two examples. Don't try to jam too much new stuff into your head all at once; take it at whatever pace is comfortable for you.
Very much this. Even simple chords are just extra notes on top of the root, 5th, 3rd, 7th, minor 3rd, minor 7th. With jazz chords it just keeps going. Most of these notes can be added to an existing shape. Sometimes you have to change your fingering to make the resultant shape playable. There very few usable chord shapes which don’t look like they were based on CAGED shapes, and you pick these up when you need them. I’ve being playing for 50 something years, and it was only last month that I used x6576x for the first time.Whistler said:… think of the basic chord and then all the notes you play in the bar are just additional notes...
Then you can simplify the chord, and add clarity to the sound, by dropping unimportant notes. The 5th is often unnecessary, and if the bass is playing the root then you don’t need that either. As an example, I was playing a song last night which needed a D7. I chose x5453x which I like for solo guitar, then reduced it to xx45xx which worked much better in the band mix
Another trick with jazz chords is “close chording” where you chose chord shapes/positions which have their notes close together. The CAGED system is your friend because it offers the basic shapes in any position, and you add the extra notes to suit.
This doesn’t just work in jazz. There’s a Rob Harris video showing how he plays Love Foolosophy. The chords are Bm7, Em7, C9 and back to Bm7. Rob plays xxx77x, xx978x, xxx78x.
Another trick with jazz chords is “close chording” where you chose chord shapes/positions which have their notes close together. The CAGED system is your friend because it offers the basic shapes in any position, and you add the extra notes to suit.
This doesn’t just work in jazz. There’s a Rob Harris video showing how he plays Love Foolosophy. The chords are Bm7, Em7, C9 and back to Bm7. Rob plays xxx77x, xx978x, xxx78x.
Hard work.
That being said, it can be overwhelming at first so it’s important to have a “way in” with this stuff and have a clear idea of how much you need to have under your fingers, if only to get started. In order to get though most jazz tunes, you need to have the following chord types:
Maj7, Dom7, min7, m7b5, dim7
That’s 5 chord types. Learn a shape for each of those with an E string and A string Root.
Maj7, Dom7, min7, m7b5, dim7
That’s 5 chord types. Learn a shape for each of those with an E string and A string Root.
That’s 10 shapes that will serve you well and get you started.
Once you’ve learnt the shapes and can recall/play them (preferably in the context of a tune) understand how they are constructed and how/why they change. How is a Maj7 constructed and what changes when it’s a m7b5?
From there, introduce 9th chords - Maj9, 9th, min9 (A string root shapes will be suffice) and Altered Dominants - 7#9, 7b9 and 7#5 and again, A string shapes will be enough (for now). Try and understand what’s been added, what’s been changed/omitted compared to 7th chords?
From there, introduce 9th chords - Maj9, 9th, min9 (A string root shapes will be suffice) and Altered Dominants - 7#9, 7b9 and 7#5 and again, A string shapes will be enough (for now). Try and understand what’s been added, what’s been changed/omitted compared to 7th chords?
So that’s 16 shapes to learn, but most of them you’ll either be familiar with or won’t be too difficult to adjust to. Yes, it is a lot (even though it’s only scratching the surface!) but it will get things going for you and give you the foundations to dig deeper into it should you want to (inversions, drop 2/3, rootless voicings, shell voicing etc etc).
Jazz isn’t just for “elite” guitarists, it’s for everyone. But it is for people that aren’t afraid of hard work and putting the yards in. That’s down to the individual.
Be systematic and patient. If you’re having trouble remembering things on a tune, you’re trying to do too much. Just go 4 bars at a time, or even 2 bars if needed. Slow and steady repetition is key to getting anything in the fingers, head and ears.
This, I find interesting.Roland said:I’ve being playing for 50 something years, and it was only last month that I used x6576x for the first time.
That EbMaj9… was it the case that you simply never had a reason to learn it until now? Did you know it was a Maj9 chord, or was it just moving/adjusting fingers until you found it? Do you wish you’d have had that chord in your vocab for 40 years, as opposed to the last month?
Unless you're playing solo, don't bother. Just use basic Maj/Mi/7 chords and let the rest of the ensemble fill the rest out. Particularly root notes, they're for the bassist ;)
My experience:
Chords go by very fast on Jazz standards, so you need to be fast, I only use three note basic shell voicings.
Root+7th+3rd(10th)
I only use three chord types: Major 7, minor 7 and Dom 7.
I ignore any chord extensions, Dm7b5, G7b5 etc
So for Dm7-G7-CM7
Dm7 uses notes D-C-F
G7 uses notes G-F-B
CM7 uses notes C-B-E
So, I would suggest, using these three chord types with three note chord voicings, then you can play almost all Jazz Standard.
Advanced:
Drop the root, play 3rd and 7ths, if playing with a fussy Bass player or piano player.
Play substitute chords to vary your comping. Sub like Db7 for G7 etc
Edit: Don't get bogged down learning too many chord types, you'll never remember or need them all.
GuyBoden said:My experience:Chords go by very fast on Jazz standards, so you need to be fast, I only use three note basic shell voicings.Root+7th+3rd(10th)I only use three chord types: Major 7, minor 7 and Dom 7.I ignore any chord extensions, Dm7b5, G7b5 etcSo for Dm7-G7-CM7Dm7 uses notes D-C-FG7 uses notes G-F-BCM7 uses notes C-B-ESo, I would suggest, using these three chord types with three note chord voicings, then you can play almost all Jazz Standard.Advanced:Drop the root, play 3rd and 7ths, if playing with a fussy Bass player or piano player.Play substitute chords to vary your comping. Sub like Db7 for G7 etcEdit: Don't get bogged down learning too many chord types, you'll never remember or need them all.
If you don't believe me watch Jimmy Bruno's video using three note chords.
The guy who is really good on YouTube is Adam Levy. He is also interviewed on "That Pedal Show".
Look up his video on shell chords. He does a really good video on how to play the song " All of me "
The word Jazz can sound intimidating and complicated but like most things it doesn't have to be.
I'm 73 and have played guitar since 1960s I don't consider myself to be a Jazz guitarist but I have been a pro guitarist and
at times had to play standard/dance music so have a goo chordal knowledge every little helps.
I have seen many songs played with different chords and voicings and they all sound fine.
You may have heard of the real book here is the free online version and with this you can change the key of the song if
you want to.... https://realbook.site/ Keep at it good luck.
Look up his video on shell chords. He does a really good video on how to play the song " All of me "
The word Jazz can sound intimidating and complicated but like most things it doesn't have to be.
I'm 73 and have played guitar since 1960s I don't consider myself to be a Jazz guitarist but I have been a pro guitarist and
at times had to play standard/dance music so have a goo chordal knowledge every little helps.
I have seen many songs played with different chords and voicings and they all sound fine.
You may have heard of the real book here is the free online version and with this you can change the key of the song if
you want to.... https://realbook.site/ Keep at it good luck.
I appreciate all the advice, With Jazz you just have put in the hard work, there's no quick tricks. I mastered the song, just practice and as you guys said, form the d chord shape then add on the 6's & 7's, form the F, get that sorted than do a variation. It just takes a while. Thanks for your advice.
I've got loads of lesson material at jon green/ hubpages.com, just ask if you have any questions. Robin Nolan, Adam Levy, Jimmy Bruno, Frank Vignola on YT are all good.
I’d never needed that shape. I knew it was there, but when playing solo I was always voice leading on other strings, and playing with other people I’d be using simpler chords for clarity. The song is Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn, which we play without keys. The keyboard motif, which I’m playing on guitar, is on the 2nd/3rd strings.Brad said:This, I find interesting.Roland said:I’ve being playing for 50 something years, and it was only last month that I used x6576x for the first time.That EbMaj9… was it the case that you simply never had a reason to learn it until now? Did you know it was a Maj9 chord, or was it just moving/adjusting fingers until you found it? Do you wish you’d have had that chord in your vocab for 40 years, as opposed to the last month?
Ahhh I get you now. It read to me like you’d never played that chord before and only discovered it recently. I’m impressed and perplexed in equal measure how you’ve managed to nearly make it to 50 years of playing before you’d used it!Roland said:I’d never needed that shape. I knew it was there, but when playing solo I was always voice leading on other strings, and playing with other people I’d be using simpler chords for clarity. The song is Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn, which we play without keys. The keyboard motif, which I’m playing on guitar, is on the 2nd/3rd strings.Brad said:This, I find interesting.Roland said:I’ve being playing for 50 something years, and it was only last month that I used x6576x for the first time.That EbMaj9… was it the case that you simply never had a reason to learn it until now? Did you know it was a Maj9 chord, or was it just moving/adjusting fingers until you found it? Do you wish you’d have had that chord in your vocab for 40 years, as opposed to the last month?
we started with Ella Fitzgerald, It's only a paper moon - a great introduction.
Next Laver Baker, on reunion day. lots of 6th, 7th, 9th and minor 7th chords. I know 2/3 of these shapes, but these chord aren't sticking, every time I play along, I'm like 'what the hell shape is that chord' i have to look it up. quite simply all the numbers after the chords might be confusing me.
Any advice from the jazzers, thank you.