Is anyone using these guitar cab style FRFR speakers for live backline?

I had been thinking about going with something like the Laney LFR-112 or the Fender one but I see quite a few posts and videos of people using these FRFR speakers then moving on to other solutions, or saying they prefer a power amp -> traditional guitar cab.

It feels like a good solution to a number of problems...but not if it sounds bad I guess.

Anyone here using them and happy with them? Or used them and decided they are not that great?

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Here's some live gig clips using my Vox Tonelab LE through a single FRFR108 mounted on a tripod on the left of the vid. My last band were pretty loud and the FRFR108 was only around half way! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N8T0B-fbak&t=93s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ugUDlzJ9xg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8mh3MYitFg

Voxman said:

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Huh - sounds pretty good to me! So is the Headrush the only place you have guitar coming through? None in the main PA or other monitors? I can imagine my band complaining they can't hear the guitars, curmudgeonly lot that they are!

Yeah I use a powercab, as a monitor with a line out to PA. Never had as many compliments in 30 years of playing as Ive had since I started with this set up 

I don’t gig anymore but I’ve got the Headrush FR108 ii. 

lustycourtier said:

Yeah I use a powercab, as a monitor with a line out to PA. Never had as many compliments in 30 years of playing as Ive had since I started with this set up 

The Line6 powercab?

Gigged with Headrush 108 and also into the PA - worked well for me. First gig with the Fender FR12 coming up this weekend.

At some level, every person we see talking about gear is always buying something new, otherwise what is there to talk about? I don't think that means anything specifically about their past gear. 

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

I gig with a Helix LT into a Fender FR12. It's certainly loud enough by itself for smaller gigs, plus the XLR out is useful for going into a PA for bigger ones. Then I use the FR12 as my on stage monitor.

I miss the craziness of a valve amp, but the ability to just plug in, switch on, and play is great. Also my back prefers it. 

Yep, use a Fender FR-10 for full band rehearsals and gigs. Love it. Lightweight, plenty loud enough and sounds good. Use it with either a Fractal FM9 or HX Stomp. Previously used a Yamaha DXR10 and have also used a Seymour Duncan PS170 with a variety of different guitar cabs.
The reason I prefer an FRFR solution is that I use a piezo equipped electric and a Boss SY-200 on a few songs in the set and these benefit massively from running through an FRFR.
The Fractal sounds great on core guitar tones so I get the familiarity of a traditional backline amp with greater flexibility.
The Fender is plenty loud enough on its own for pub gigs but I usually feed a bit of signal into the PA to help spread the sound a bit - the Fender does the heavy lifting though. Might be unconventional but it works for me.

gearaddict said:

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

You need monitoring to hear vocals etc so just use that.

monquixote said:

gearaddict said:

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

You need monitoring to hear vocals etc so just use that.

For me I want the FR12 on stage even when using PA and monitors as I like to stand close to it for getting feedback for intros and outros. 

We did try using IEMs and no back line on stage ... its not for me lads 

I use a Matrix Q12 for all occasions: home, rehearsals and gigs. At gigs I also put the guitar through the PA so that the levels can be balanced, and the overall volume kept under control.

I use a Barefaced FRFR - mainly because it's open backed (albeit via a clever port design at rear). I prefer the "spread" that an open backed type cab gives - I can hear it clearly on stage.

bloodandtears said:

I'm the sole guitar player in a 3 piece...  

Guitar into Helix into Laney LFR-112.

In addition to this, I have a separate feed from the Helix to the PA for FOH sound spread and balance.

The backline is mainly for my benefit, I can control its volume without affect FOH, I can use it feedback and monitoring etc, it balances the on stage sound and appearance (bass player users an amp and cab)

I also use IEMs to hear vocals, click tracks and a personalised instrument mix,  although I only use one earpiece for this.. (it's also protection for the ear that faces the cymbals!!)

The Laney is great... 

I have tried it against the more expensive L6 Powercab and I stuck with the Laney... 

I have tried the Laney LFR-212 but it's too heavy for one person to lift after a gig imho.

I have tried the wedge style options in front of me eg Headrush, Alto etc, but I disliked the form factor in the context of my band; it made more sense to have it behind me and dedicated to guitar only.

I do intend to try the Fender FR-10 to see what it offers against the Laney, it is lighter for sure which is a bonus and the volume/eq controls are easily accessible, so maybe I will swap; but after 150 plus gigs with the Laney I'd need to be totally convinced on sound quality and reliability too.

NB: I have never been a fan of the traditional valve and pedals route.. I am a Line 6 fanboy and I much prefer to tap a button once than re-enact the Riverdance.

as always, try and find what's best for you.

Interesting, thanks - people (well, the internet) seem to be saying that the Fender FRs are the best sounding of these things atm but I'm not sure if that's coz they are the newest and shiniest and/or whether people just prefer the look/vibe of the Fender. I'm actually not that keen on the Fender vibe and I prefer the look of the Laney. People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing.  =)

I do actually have a Headrush FRFR108 which we have been using in the band as a general monitor. It never occurred to me to stick it behind me and use it as backline, but I see people above in this thread doing just that. So, that's something I should definitely try. I do feel there's something a bit odd about having a PA speaker on a pole behind me rather than a 'proper amp'. But I wouldn't want to drop £100s on a Laney LFR just for that reason alone. It would need to sound better. I'm struggling to find comparisons of these things online. There is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhyDPzMLUI (clips start at 1:55)

When I first listened to that my instinct was the Laney sounded 'bad'. Listening back though, with proper headphones, it's not so much that it's bad rather than it has a huge amount more mids, I think. Which, if other comparisons between real cabs and FRFRs are anything to go by, would suggest the Laney sounds more like a real cab. I could be wrong. One thing is for sure - they sound hugely different.

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing.  =)

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing.  =)

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

It's linked above isn't it? This should work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhyDPzMLUI

You do actually need some weight if you want decent low end. The more rigid a speaker cabinet is and the more mass it has the tighter the low end is. 
This doesn't  matters quite so much in a guitar context with not much going on below 80Hz but make the active speaker too light and the whole thing will move because for every action there's a equal and opposite  action. The cone moving forward tries to push the cabinet backwards and so forth. Basically you want the cabinet immovable but that's not really practical. 

There's a certain sound I hear with some of the modern plastic housed tops like FBT and such. You can go too far making things too light in PA 

gearaddict said:

Voxman said:

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Huh - sounds pretty good to me! So is the Headrush the only place you have guitar coming through? None in the main PA or other monitors? I can imagine my band complaining they can't hear the guitars, curmudgeonly lot that they are!

Thanks. Those vids were just through the Headrush. As mentioned I have an option to have one as a monitor for me and the band if needed.  And I could go through the PA too if needed.  I've even done larger gigs and festivals putting my MFX straight through the FOH PA and using a monitor on stage.  This was my Vox Tonelab SE straight through FOH. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeRH4xabchg

gearaddict said:

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

It's linked above isn't it? This should work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhyDPzMLUI

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

It's linked above isn't it? This should work

@gearaddict ; that video isn't John Nathan Cordy

found it..

Oh *that* video. Sorry, misunderstood.

gearaddict said:

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

It's linked above isn't it? This should work

@gearaddict ; that video isn't John Nathan Cordy

found it..

Oh *that* video. Sorry, misunderstood.

It should be noted it was on a hard floor and on the tilt back legs. .. Mine has never moved an inch when flat or on a stand, or on carpet when either flat or tilted back.
The lighter weight is an advantage in my book and it is certainly not short on bass compared to other options I've used. If it's too light, take the back off and load it with weights.....

It's a fair size but 28lbs for the Fender FR12 is very light for a 1x12.  There is also an FR10 but at 26lbs its not really saving you much weight, and at £427 for the FR12 v £419 for the FR10 unless you're desperate for a very slight reduction in size and weight it's difficult to see why anyone would opt for the FR10 over the FR12.  

I’m surprised nobody seems to have compared the Laney LFR with the Fender FR. Or at least, I can’t find it if they have. Anyone on here done that?

If you are a little bit practical you can easily build your own powered cab. I would build a stereo one as modellers sound better in stereo. 

Build a box 
Choose a speaker (s) 
Use an Ice Power amplifier module to power the speakers 
Put a volume control in line with the input to the power amp, maybe a simple passive bass / mid / treble too 

Or build a little head using the same module and use a passive speaker cab. That way you could have a couple of cabs like a 2 x 12 for larger gigs and a 1 x 10 for very small gigs. The head I built is small enough to go in my gig bag and weights less than some pedals. 

Danny1969 said:

If you are a little bit practical you can easily build your own powered cab.

I would build a stereo one as modellers sound better in stereo. 

'If you are a little bit practical'.... Aaaand there's the problem!

One of the flexibilities of having two Headrush FRFR108s is that I can play in stereo if I wanted too. However, it depends on the modeller. With the Line 6 Pod Go (different with Helix mfx) if you place a mono fx in your signal chain, eg a fuzz, it makes everything mono. 

The other point I'd mention is that you really need two cabs that you can space apart for proper stereo. Whilst technically you can have stereo with two speakers in the same cab, because the speakers are too close together whilst you might get a slightly fuller sound  you won't get proper stereo separation. 

I have that issue with my 2x12 Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX, the difference you hear with stereo fx is minimal. Even though I have the separate matching AD212 extn cab, both the amp and cab are wired to give you left and right in each unit when connected for stereo. So as stock and without a rewire, you can't eg make both speakers in the amp LEFT and both speakers in the extn cab RIGHT.  Whereas if you had the AD120VTH head and two AD212 cabs, you can.  (With the advantage of hindsight I should have got the head but not least because it's easier to carry the head and cabs rather than a combo!)
 

Voxman said:

Danny1969 said:

If you are a little bit practical you can easily build your own powered cab.

I would build a stereo one as modellers sound better in stereo. 

'If you are a little bit practical'.... Aaaand there's the problem!

One of the flexibilities of having two Headrush FRFR108s is that I can play in stereo if I wanted too. However, it depends on the modeller. With the Line 6 Pod Go (different with Helix mfx) if you place a mono fx in your signal chain, eg a fuzz, it makes everything mono. 

The other point I'd mention is that you really need two cabs that you can space apart for proper stereo. Whilst technically you can have stereo with two speakers in the same cab, because the speakers are too close together whilst you might get a slightly fuller sound  you won't get proper stereo separation. 

I have that issue with my 2x12 Vox Valvetronix AD120VTX, the difference you hear with stereo fx is minimal. Even though I have the separate matching AD212 extn cab, both the amp and cab are wired to give you left and right in each unit when connected for stereo. So as stock and without a rewire, you can't eg make both speakers in the amp LEFT and both speakers in the extn cab RIGHT.  Whereas if you had the AD120VTH head and two AD212 cabs, you can.  (With the advantage of hindsight I should have got the head but not least because it's easier to carry the head and cabs rather than a combo!)
 

I might be misunderstanding you but I ran my Pod Go in stereo, both to PA and in my ears. The stereo width is generated by the chorus, reverb and delay ... the amp and drives are mono sources but they would only sum a signal to mono if placed after a stereo source ... all my patchs were pedal -  amp - chorus - delay - reverb 

I'm not so sure you do need a lot of space between 2 speakers to perceive the stereo width. The stereo DSP block amp I made recently sounds very wide into a 2 x 12 Marshall cab, as did the Princeton Chorus I gigged in the nineties. 

I had an AD60VTH in for repair a few weeks back, will put some pics and describe the faults I fixed on our community repair thread when I get a chance. 

gearaddict said:

I’m surprised nobody seems to have compared the Laney LFR with the Fender FR. Or at least, I can’t find it if they have. Anyone on here done that?

me too... but I will eventually...

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

I’m surprised nobody seems to have compared the Laney LFR with the Fender FR. Or at least, I can’t find it if they have. Anyone on here done that?

me too... but I will eventually...

Cool :) You have both then? Any preferences?