Is Fractal “better” than Line 6?

I’ve been using a HX Stomp for years now, I like its form factor & ease of use but the lack of dsp does get annoying when you try to use anything “poly”. 

I’ve been using my FM3 for a couple of months now, the learning curve is greater and I find it less intuitive to use than Helix, but the amp sounds are much richer and more dynamic to my ears. Really good bits of kit.

Yes is the answer. 

guitarcookie1 said:

I’ve been using a HX Stomp for years now, I like its form factor & ease of use but the lack of dsp does get annoying when you try to use anything “poly”. 

Would a Fractal FM3 be a good “upgrade”?

If you're talking a conventional dirt+delay+reverb+one amp unit, then the FM3 is better for amp sounds, it's level for delay options and modulations, and it's a close in or the FM3 on reverbs. So soundswise the FM3 is an upgrade on the HX Stomp. 

It then comes down to what you want your setup to do. The FM3 for me doesn't work as I want stereo effects going into a pair of clean amps and I can't do that as the FM3 has one amp and I don't want to run effects post-preamp/pre-cab. 

I've settled on dirt pedals --> HX Stomp for delay, reverb, and modulation --> Boss SDE-3 for another delay and modulation options --> 2x Tonex Ones each running a clean amp (Amalgam's JC-120 or Fender BF Twin captures). 

Yes, imho, Fractal FM3 has better sounds than the HX.

BUT, the Helix in all its forms, is the easiest to use.

Yes. Moved from Helix LT to FM9 last month. 

Helix is very good, but Fractal is better to my ears. 

Generally a less intuitive UI if you're not using the editor - although preset performance pages and per-preset layouts are amazing features - and capable of more complexity, but the base sounds are great and need less tweaking.

I would recommend you check out the block limits *and the block channels feature before switching so it doesn't catch you out. 

Yes....

Amp sims are better, you can tweek them more if you wish.

Fx on the Fractal gear is substantially better.....  delays and reverbs are as good as there is... on par or better than eventide.

Fractal stuff does sound better to my ears especially the FX, but I found it tedious to use so I'd rather have a Helix.

Wouldn't a bigger Helix give you more DSP power? 

I've got an HX Stomp and a Fractal FM9 (having previously had the FM3)
Personally, I think the Fractal sounds better and is more flexible. The deep dive adjustments you can tweak on the Fractal are on another level. You don't need to, but they are there if you need them.
Whilst there are block "limits" (eg. 1 amp, 2 drives etc), the "channel" function means you can have 4 options per block in every preset so I've never felt restricted.
HX Stomp and Helix in general is still a great platform too which is why I still have and use mine.

In my opinion, yes, and not even just the latest Fractal stuff. I have an AxeFX II that sounds and feels better than my HX Stomp/Helix Native, love those as I do.

Heartfeltdawn said: ... The FM3 for me doesn't work as I want stereo effects going into a pair of clean amps and I can't do that as the FM3 has one amp and I don't want to run effects post-preamp/pre-cab... 

The FM3 has one amp, but it’s stereo, so you can run stereo effects through it without summing to mono. However you are limited to the same amp settings on both left and right channels. 

There's no such thing as better. Only preference. But you can also like both. 

Food for thought, thanks. 

Roland said:

The FM3 has one amp, but it’s stereo, so you can run stereo effects through it without summing to mono. However you are limited to the same amp settings on both left and right channels. 

Ahhhhh. I'd gone on posts like this who said everything got summed to mono. 

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-in-stereo.189377/

So one amp without stereo effects being summed to mono... interesting. That does change considerations. 

rossyamaha said:

There's no such thing as better. Only preference. But you can also like both. 

That’s something which irritates me about a lot of these conversations. Better is a relative term, and depends totally on your criteria. However, what the conversations often flush out are what different people’s criteria are. 

Roland said:

rossyamaha said:

There's no such thing as better. Only preference. But you can also like both. 

That’s something which irritates me about a lot of these conversations. Better is a relative term, and depends totally on your criteria. However, what the conversations often flush out are what different people’s criteria are. 

I agree with this; I also think the constant narrative of 'best modeller' is an odd idea, full stop - we don't try to declare one single 'best' amplifier, or drive pedal.

Heartfeltdawn said:

Roland said:

The FM3 has one amp, but it’s stereo, so you can run stereo effects through it without summing to mono. However you are limited to the same amp settings on both left and right channels. 

Ahhhhh. I'd gone on posts like this who said everything got summed to mono. 

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-in-stereo.189377/

So one amp without stereo effects being summed to mono... interesting. That does change considerations. 

Maybe I’ve misread the manual

guitarcookie1 said:

Food for thought, thanks. 

Maybe “better” was the wrong word to use. To me “better” would be less of the artificial, digital high-end fizz that I can hear that you don’t get with a valve amp 

For about £140 you should try a tonex one pedal. 

I’ve had Helix, Kemper and Fractal over the yrs, all have their good and bad points but as a complete unit the FM9 is  hard to beat imho

grungebob said:

guitarcookie1 said:

Food for thought, thanks. 

Maybe “better” was the wrong word to use. To me “better” would be less of the artificial, digital high-end fizz that I can hear that you don’t get with a valve amp 

For about £140 you should try a tonex one pedal. 

The thing is truly mind blowing for its ability to produce the sounds it does for the size it is. 

It’s giving me some of the most natural sounding drive and high gain sounds I’ve heard from a non valve product. 

You can then use your helix for all the FXs

Had the big Tonex pedal for a couple of months.

Didn’t like it much, the app is pants & I’m not sure “captures” are for me (sounded kind of flat really). Much prefer the Stomp. 

willo said:

I agree with this; I also think the constant narrative of 'best modeller' is an odd idea, full stop - we don't try to declare one single 'best' amplifier, or drive pedal.

That's because everyone knows it's the Marshall MG15. 

Heartfeltdawn said:

Roland said:

The FM3 has one amp, but it’s stereo, so you can run stereo effects through it without summing to mono. However you are limited to the same amp settings on both left and right channels. 

Ahhhhh. I'd gone on posts like this who said everything got summed to mono. 

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-in-stereo.189377/

So one amp without stereo effects being summed to mono... interesting. That does change considerations. 

you can choose.   the amp output can be stereo or summed - its a choice in the amp block itself. You can also choose if it takes the left input, sums left and right together, or takes them in stereo - so you can absolutely run stereo FX in front of the amp and treat it like 2 real amps - albeit with the same settings.  

As someone who quite recently switched from using a Stomp to an FM3, I can definitely say that certainly for me the overall tones are a step up.
The reverbs on the FM3 are also IMO much better. I wouldn't necessarily say the other FXs are, though I don't tend to use a lot of FX other than reverb.
What I would say in the Stomp's favour is the user experience is a bit better/more fun, though the FM3 isn't difficult to use.

The Stomp is terrific and amazing value for money - you can get very good sounds out of it but once you've used the FM3, it would be hard to go back.

paulmapp8306 said:

you can choose.   the amp output can be stereo or summed - its a choice in the amp block itself. You can also choose if it takes the left input, sums left and right together, or takes them in stereo - so you can absolutely run stereo FX in front of the amp and treat it like 2 real amps - albeit with the same settings.  

If it really does take stereo inputs and retains that stereo nature (eg. a delay on the left side, chorus on the right side) and comes out post-amp block in that configuration, then the FM3 is my way forward. If not, then it's VP4 connected to 2x Tonex Ones running Amalgam's JC-120 capture. 

Any reference to the FM3 manual for something I've missed would be very much appreciated. 

Heartfeltdawn said:

paulmapp8306 said:

you can choose.   the amp output can be stereo or summed - its a choice in the amp block itself. You can also choose if it takes the left input, sums left and right together, or takes them in stereo - so you can absolutely run stereo FX in front of the amp and treat it like 2 real amps - albeit with the same settings.  

If it really does take stereo inputs and retains that stereo nature (eg. a delay on the left side, chorus on the right side) and comes out post-amp block in that configuration, then the FM3 is my way forward. If not, then it's VP4 connected to 2x Tonex Ones running Amalgam's JC-120 capture. 

Any reference to the FM3 manual for something I've missed would be very much appreciated. 

All of the posts that’s I’ve read on Fractal Forum state that amp blocks “sum to mono”, so two amp blocks required to preserve stereo fx before amp block.

Actually - yeh.  I dont tend to use stereo as I go amp cab - and having looked you have left, right, or summed as inputs to the amp block - so if you want stereo FX INTO the amp then you need 2 amp blocks - which FM3 cant do - you need the FM9 for that.

Personally I feel that at the current standard of flagship modellers there are no absolutes here whatever anyone says, it's preference and you can't quantify what sound is better, and it's more about what unit has what IO, how you get on with the interface and so on. I like the Fractal stuff but the UI is a nightmare for me, and the FM3 doesn't have the IO I need, so I use the HXFX or Helix.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how good something is if you don't find it easy to use and if it impedes the creative process. 

TeleMaster said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter how good something is if you don't find it easy to use and if it impedes the creative process. 

The same is true for different brands of cider. 

In my experience, if you don't like the helix then you probably won't like the fractal either. 

If you do like the helix, but you're a bit fed up with noticing its shortcomings then a switch to the fractal will likely solve your problem (albeit probably only until you get fed up with the fractal's shortcomings and the cycle starts again). 

Heartfeltdawn said:

TeleMaster said:

Ultimately it doesn't matter how good something is if you don't find it easy to use and if it impedes the creative process. 

The same is true for different brands of cider. 

I'm more of an ale man myself. Love me a Shropshire Gold.