PLEASE - Amp suggestions for someone forever frustrated with their tone!
Comments
Ceriatone OTS? Gloriously clean channel and has an overdrive channel plus takes pedals well too.
Couple threads about them here. I own a OTS 20 mini head.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/271049/nad-ceriatone#Comment_4028059
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/275504/talk-ceriatone-dumbles-at-me-ods-hrm
Couple threads about them here. I own a OTS 20 mini head.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/271049/nad-ceriatone#Comment_4028059
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/275504/talk-ceriatone-dumbles-at-me-ods-hrm
Do you need a compressor pedal? Can make things sound very 'produced'
In terms of amps there are loads of great ones out there, but not that many that will cover all the bases from clean to mean in a convincing way - so maybe pedals/multifx for dirty tones on a great clean platform?
My amp journey includes a Tone King Imperial which to me is an amp that you can plug in, strum any chord and drift away in clean loveliness. However, for me, dirty channel is not that good despite what they claim.
I've also got/had Lazy J, Mesa Lonestar, Carr Skylark, Bad Cat Cub - all of these have their merits, but can't quite do the 2 channel thing (maybe the Mesa can, depending on your style)
One of my most recent purchases was one of the new Bad Cat range - a Hot Cat. It might be something like you are looking for as it does a great clean and a great marshall-esque channel 2. For my kind of playing it is absolutely fantastic - and I've played a lot of boutique amps.
In terms of amps there are loads of great ones out there, but not that many that will cover all the bases from clean to mean in a convincing way - so maybe pedals/multifx for dirty tones on a great clean platform?
My amp journey includes a Tone King Imperial which to me is an amp that you can plug in, strum any chord and drift away in clean loveliness. However, for me, dirty channel is not that good despite what they claim.
I've also got/had Lazy J, Mesa Lonestar, Carr Skylark, Bad Cat Cub - all of these have their merits, but can't quite do the 2 channel thing (maybe the Mesa can, depending on your style)
One of my most recent purchases was one of the new Bad Cat range - a Hot Cat. It might be something like you are looking for as it does a great clean and a great marshall-esque channel 2. For my kind of playing it is absolutely fantastic - and I've played a lot of boutique amps.
Dr Z Maz JR18 or Rift PR-35.
The OP made me think of my old Maz Jr NRPAL said:Dr Z Maz JR18 or Rift PR-35.
Also the couple of ‘2 knob’ amps I’ve played (Vol, Tone) - Marshall 18 wasted (ignoring Trem knobs) and Carmen Ghia - there was just something very ‘live’ and responsive about them and it was basically impossible to get lost wondering if, for example, the room needed you to tweak the Low - attention just stays on the way you play.
You have to ditch the expectation of being able to get exact sounds at any exact volume level you choose - but I ended up preferring it.
I have a few amps, including a Maz 18 and have had all the usual suspects over the years. I've been using a Victory VC35 Copper for about 2 years now, and have no plans to change that.
I bought the Maz 18 more recently but didn't have enough headroom for a solo boost.
I use the VC35 set to hairy clean, and then boost it with a Timmy (HX fx patch) and a Wampler PlexiDrive for more gain.
I love it.
I bought the Maz 18 more recently but didn't have enough headroom for a solo boost.
I use the VC35 set to hairy clean, and then boost it with a Timmy (HX fx patch) and a Wampler PlexiDrive for more gain.
I love it.
Guthrie did a video about a year ago explaining how he switches between Princeton and Deluxe based on the size of the venue. A Twin is too loud for most purposes. He’s recently ordered a custom build.ElevensLouder said:
How about a Deluxe Reverb or maybe a Twin Reverb?
Guthrie Trapp likes Princetons and Deluxes and he always has great tone.
Budget-wise I'm not looking to go into Two Rock territory.
The last time I saw Matt Schofield he was using Two Rock. A Ceriatone would get you close at lower price.
Given the material you mention I’d think about a Deluxe Reverb type amp with a couple of drive pedals. Doesn’t have to be Fender. Whatever you do, go secondhand. Then you can resell without major loss if it doesn’t suit.
Given the material you mention I’d think about a Deluxe Reverb type amp with a couple of drive pedals. Doesn’t have to be Fender. Whatever you do, go secondhand. Then you can resell without major loss if it doesn’t suit.
A Twin won't make any friends for you with sound engineers. Mine (85w '71 Silverface) sounded best with the volume between. 2.5 and 3.5, which unless playing 1500+ sized venues was normally too much. If you like Fender cleans then a Deluxe in my experience is a great sounding amp, but 22w wasn't enough for the Chili's tribute I played in. Maybe look for a reissue Vibrolux, at 35w it's probably about the right amount of clean headroom and within your budget.
Even though you have already tried the ubiquitous HRD and didn’t like it, I still think it’s the best option for live function set gigs. Takes pedals very well, open backed cab fills the room and the sterile clean tone can be addressed via lion tamer / Graphic EQ or similar in the loop?
The blues requirement is slightly harder to incorporate but you could add a Kingsley PreAmp / drive type pedal into the mix (bypassing the HRD preamp.
Matt Schofields tone is glorious but having seen him play a few times, I honestly think that he gets it from a)Talent b) Playing very loud (lots of acoustic coupling going on that generates a clean sustain).
The blues requirement is slightly harder to incorporate but you could add a Kingsley PreAmp / drive type pedal into the mix (bypassing the HRD preamp.
Matt Schofields tone is glorious but having seen him play a few times, I honestly think that he gets it from a)Talent b) Playing very loud (lots of acoustic coupling going on that generates a clean sustain).
A Fender Bassman is well worth investigating, possibly even the Tonemaster version?
It's easier to take a black panel Fender sound and tweak it with pedals to a variety of gain ranges than it is to start with something naturally more midrangey and perhaps overdrive-y and try to fashion a crystal-clear sound from there.
The (very) clean amp + pedals approach has its own compromises, mostly that when it comes to thump and wallop, your typical 1x12 open combo will not do what a closed 4 or even 2x12 with do.
Another approach that has great potential merit is to set up your amp - probably something more AC30ish than Twin Reverb - with your guitar volume and tone on 6 each for your optimum clean sound. That way, you have a bit of bite and a bit of level in reserve, and can tweak a bit each way. This might work with the slightly higher gain and fuller midrange of a tweed-y amp as well.
Or, if you look in the right places, there are channel switchers that hit the heights, but only you can judge in your playing situation whether a particular one does it.
The (very) clean amp + pedals approach has its own compromises, mostly that when it comes to thump and wallop, your typical 1x12 open combo will not do what a closed 4 or even 2x12 with do.
Another approach that has great potential merit is to set up your amp - probably something more AC30ish than Twin Reverb - with your guitar volume and tone on 6 each for your optimum clean sound. That way, you have a bit of bite and a bit of level in reserve, and can tweak a bit each way. This might work with the slightly higher gain and fuller midrange of a tweed-y amp as well.
Or, if you look in the right places, there are channel switchers that hit the heights, but only you can judge in your playing situation whether a particular one does it.
Personally, I would go for a single channel Fender (e.g. a handwired reissue 22W Deluxe Reverb or a well-sorted, vintage handwired, non linear/non master volume 40W Pro Reverb) and do the rest with a few pedals - a Klon type for edge of break up, a (low noise) compressor, and an ODR-1 type for drive. Super simple, super effective; added colour could come from a compact multi-FX
Some options might need to be found used - however:
Maz 18
Haamstead RT20+
Suhr Bella
Bad Cat CUB (not the hot cat IMO - I prefer the cub for a platform, but worth trying both)
Plenty of others actually - but Im on the one channel (or one great clean at least) and these are on my list - along with a couple out of your price range - the /13 CJ11 and TR Studio Pro.
Maz 18
Haamstead RT20+
Suhr Bella
Bad Cat CUB (not the hot cat IMO - I prefer the cub for a platform, but worth trying both)
Plenty of others actually - but Im on the one channel (or one great clean at least) and these are on my list - along with a couple out of your price range - the /13 CJ11 and TR Studio Pro.
Morgan Abbey 20 - will do all you ask and with pedals can get fat and gainy with great feel under the strings.
I think you'd struggle more with a Rambler, I have one and it's great at Fender cleans but doesn't have a master volume which makes a difference. The Abbey broken clean is so inspiring as you stated was desirable.
Failing that, Tone King Sky King as it has the attenuators, the Rambler is a better black panel tone however.
I think you'd struggle more with a Rambler, I have one and it's great at Fender cleans but doesn't have a master volume which makes a difference. The Abbey broken clean is so inspiring as you stated was desirable.
Failing that, Tone King Sky King as it has the attenuators, the Rambler is a better black panel tone however.
This is exactly the sort of thing I use my gear for.
My main gigging amp is a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and I wi continue to recommend that to anyoen in my position because it just makes life so easy.
My others are a BadCat Cub and Carr Bel Ray, which do the same thing very well with slightly different flavours
But honestly if I had to choose just one I’d keep the TMDR
But honestly if I had to choose just one I’d keep the TMDR
I know you said not channel switching and it needs to be idiot-proof, but...
I would get a Mesa/Boogie of some sort, probably a Mark V 35 or similar.
Because with two completely independent channels you can have one set for clean and the other for the 'ferocious' stuff, without compromising as you have to with shared EQ or a pedal into a clean channel that's already optimised for a different type of sound. Super versatile and can do most sounds you need for functions or blues (with some exceptions, eg they can't do a good Vox-type sound). They're not as difficult to dial in as their reputation suggests once you get used to them, they are of completely professional quality, used by many of the artists you mention, and should be within your budget second hand.
I would get a Mesa/Boogie of some sort, probably a Mark V 35 or similar.
Because with two completely independent channels you can have one set for clean and the other for the 'ferocious' stuff, without compromising as you have to with shared EQ or a pedal into a clean channel that's already optimised for a different type of sound. Super versatile and can do most sounds you need for functions or blues (with some exceptions, eg they can't do a good Vox-type sound). They're not as difficult to dial in as their reputation suggests once you get used to them, they are of completely professional quality, used by many of the artists you mention, and should be within your budget second hand.
Wow, I wasn't expecting so many replies!
Thank you all so much. I'll take your recommendations and disappear off down the demo/review wormhole for the next few days/weeks...(decades ;) )
Thank you all so much. I'll take your recommendations and disappear off down the demo/review wormhole for the next few days/weeks...(decades ;) )
Jcm800 and a good attenuator.
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"I just want an amp that has an awesome clean sound and takes a few pedals really well. An amp that when I strum a simple open G chord, it sparkles and fills the room. I want to be inspired to play."
That could describe my Bluesbreaker combo. Fantastic warm cleans, decent headroom, and a great pedal platform. It's heavy and awkward to carry, but it's still my first choice for gigging, looks the bollox and it's simple to fix.
That could describe my Bluesbreaker combo. Fantastic warm cleans, decent headroom, and a great pedal platform. It's heavy and awkward to carry, but it's still my first choice for gigging, looks the bollox and it's simple to fix.
Super reverb or perhaps a bassman.
If you want a fabulous clean tone, I'd echo the recommendation of a Ceriatone OTS 20. The clean tone is the best I've personally gotten from an amp. It also does the edge of breakup blues thing extremely well. To cover a broad range of cover tunes, using the clean mode with pedals would be the way to go. Build quality is great too.
Alternatively, I know I sound like a stuck record but the Mesa Express 5.25+ is hands down the most versatile amp I've ever played but is very much a dual channel amp on steroids so doesn't quite meet your criteria.
Both can be had for well within your budget and can get very loud - certainly enough to give you a full ,clean base tone at typical pub gig volumes.
Alternatively, I know I sound like a stuck record but the Mesa Express 5.25+ is hands down the most versatile amp I've ever played but is very much a dual channel amp on steroids so doesn't quite meet your criteria.
Both can be had for well within your budget and can get very loud - certainly enough to give you a full ,clean base tone at typical pub gig volumes.
How loud can you be on stage?
Could it be that you have to keep the amps down so they aren't really in the sweet spot?
Fender Deluxe Reverb is the standard answer for me.
Or a Princeton.
But perhaps go to a shop that has Fender, Marshall and Vox amps.
Try a bunch and figure out what you like the most.
Most boutique amps are a variation on the three brands above.
I especially like Matchless (based on a Vox circuit) but they are expensive and loud.
If you can't turn an amp up then perhaps look at the various modelling options?
Could it be that you have to keep the amps down so they aren't really in the sweet spot?
Fender Deluxe Reverb is the standard answer for me.
Or a Princeton.
But perhaps go to a shop that has Fender, Marshall and Vox amps.
Try a bunch and figure out what you like the most.
Most boutique amps are a variation on the three brands above.
I especially like Matchless (based on a Vox circuit) but they are expensive and loud.
If you can't turn an amp up then perhaps look at the various modelling options?
I’m going to take a slightly different tack and point out that a DSL is basically a modded JCM800 and that’s close to the most popular gigging amp of all time and the HRD is the most popular amp of all time.
HRDs are used by Coldplay, George Benson and Nile so I think they can sound better than sterile.
Jeff Beck I think used a DSL.
by all means try a Deluxe Reverb or an AC30 but I think it’s probably something in the way you are setting things up or something that you are not happy with your playing or maybe you can’t turn things up as you want. Maybe it’s that the strat isn’t doing it for you.
I watched an Jazz group the other day using a JC22 and it was as sweet as you like despite being a mid priced solid state amp.
All I’m saying is if you watch Glastonbury you won’t see a lot of two rocks it will be jcm800, ac30s and fenders and you will notice most of the artists sound pretty good so don’t go down a rabbit hole unless you realise it will be more about GAS than tone.
HRDs are used by Coldplay, George Benson and Nile so I think they can sound better than sterile.
Jeff Beck I think used a DSL.
by all means try a Deluxe Reverb or an AC30 but I think it’s probably something in the way you are setting things up or something that you are not happy with your playing or maybe you can’t turn things up as you want. Maybe it’s that the strat isn’t doing it for you.
I watched an Jazz group the other day using a JC22 and it was as sweet as you like despite being a mid priced solid state amp.
All I’m saying is if you watch Glastonbury you won’t see a lot of two rocks it will be jcm800, ac30s and fenders and you will notice most of the artists sound pretty good so don’t go down a rabbit hole unless you realise it will be more about GAS than tone.
Following on from ICBM's comment, a mesa lonestar special 1x12 does all you want. I haven't looked lately but they used to be around £1200 used (fairly recently). Two channels, sensational cleans, takes pedals very well, plus reverb and great fx loop.
I have one and I cant imagine something so flexible...plus you can see it for what you bought it for if it's not what you wanted
I have one and I cant imagine something so flexible...plus you can see it for what you bought it for if it's not what you wanted
Thanks everyone for your fantastic input.
I spent the afternoon/evening experimenting with the DSL. Rejigged a few things on the pedal board/signal chain etc and changed some settings on the amp and I've gotten closer to what I'm looking for.
How I was running things:
Guitar---fuzzface mini---tuner---klone---another drive---chorus---DSL40CR amp on clean channel (red)
{FX loop} delay---reverb---clean boost
Changes made:
Ditch the fuzz face
Amp on clean GREEN
Ditch the fx loop - all fx into front of amp.
Clean boost PERMANENTLY ON
The reason for using the clean channel on the red setting was I found the green to be too quiet. Had a brainwave and it told me to leave the boost on permanently to give more oomph so that the green channel could be used more effectively.
Now I can ride the volume knob for solo boosts, and I'm experimenting with one of the drives as a potential always on solution for treble loss when rolling the volume off on the guitar.
So far very happy with the sound. I just set up and sound checked for a gig happening later and it was great. However, in this band we use IEMs which makes things much much easier in terms of actually hearing yourself (funny that
).
Anyway, I'm still gassing hard for a new amp, so keep the suggestions coming, but for now at least I'm happy with what I've got.
EDIT - As suggested in this thread, I may try a little compression in the chain, though if I'm leaving a boost on all the time and possibly a light drive too (as a treble fixing solution) I may end up hitting the front end too hard and don't want to do that as my reverb/delay will sound awful!
I spent the afternoon/evening experimenting with the DSL. Rejigged a few things on the pedal board/signal chain etc and changed some settings on the amp and I've gotten closer to what I'm looking for.
How I was running things:
Guitar---fuzzface mini---tuner---klone---another drive---chorus---DSL40CR amp on clean channel (red)
{FX loop} delay---reverb---clean boost
Changes made:
Ditch the fuzz face
Amp on clean GREEN
Ditch the fx loop - all fx into front of amp.
Clean boost PERMANENTLY ON
The reason for using the clean channel on the red setting was I found the green to be too quiet. Had a brainwave and it told me to leave the boost on permanently to give more oomph so that the green channel could be used more effectively.
Now I can ride the volume knob for solo boosts, and I'm experimenting with one of the drives as a potential always on solution for treble loss when rolling the volume off on the guitar.
So far very happy with the sound. I just set up and sound checked for a gig happening later and it was great. However, in this band we use IEMs which makes things much much easier in terms of actually hearing yourself (funny that
).Anyway, I'm still gassing hard for a new amp, so keep the suggestions coming, but for now at least I'm happy with what I've got.
EDIT - As suggested in this thread, I may try a little compression in the chain, though if I'm leaving a boost on all the time and possibly a light drive too (as a treble fixing solution) I may end up hitting the front end too hard and don't want to do that as my reverb/delay will sound awful!
BTW - I run the master pretty high, usually at least noon, same for the gain and volume on the channel. High output setting (40W)
Some variation of a Fender Blackface or Silverface amp is where I'd start. Princetons and Deluxes are very nice, but if they weren't loud enough then I'd consider a Tone Master Twin or Super (attenuation will be useful on these big boys). If you can, get to a shop where you can try some out.
My stock answer is pretty much always a Matchless of one sort or the other, because they have a natural compression to them that feels lovely to play, and they just sound fantastic. You should be able to pick up a used one within your budget.
Have you considered amp modelling? A modeller and speaker, together with all the IEM stuff you have, might work well for the covers band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsGV4QBYj4kmonquixote said:
HRDs are used by Coldplay, George Benson and Nile so I think they can sound better than sterile.
not sure about that last one
I recommend the Mesa Mark V 35 as well. I've had one for 6 years now. With a low gain pedal you can get clean and light overdrive from channel 1 and higher gain from channel 2. Channel 2 doesn't have to be scooped mids metal tone though, it can do lighter overdrive, mid thick bluesy tones as well and everything in-between. Plus it has independent solo clean boosts for each channel as well.ICBM said:I know you said not channel switching and it needs to be idiot-proof, but...
I would get a Mesa/Boogie of some sort, probably a Mark V 35 or similar.
Because with two completely independent channels you can have one set for clean and the other for the 'ferocious' stuff, without compromising as you have to with shared EQ or a pedal into a clean channel that's already optimised for a different type of sound. Super versatile and can do most sounds you need for functions or blues (with some exceptions, eg they can't do a good Vox-type sound). They're not as difficult to dial in as their reputation suggests once you get used to them, they are of completely professional quality, used by many of the artists you mention, and should be within your budget second hand.
It has power scaling, 10/25 & 35 watts. I have the combo and you can add another 1 x12 cab if you want more girth than the combo offers.
Ahh man those mesa mark v 35s are soooo expensive!
I need an idiot-proof (me = idiot) amp that will give me glorious tone and make me happy.
I seem to play a lot of functions-type gigs and am currently running a Marshall DSL40CR. Now, this is a fantastic amp - very versatile, nice clean (clean channel not very loud though), roaring gain, can be loud, etc etc. However, it seems to just not 'feel' right under my fingers and in the room.
I've tried the Hotrod Deluxe and I found that quite uninspiring/sterile.
I just want an amp that has an awesome clean sound and takes a few pedals really well. An amp that when I strum a simple open G chord, it sparkles and fills the room. I want to be inspired to play.
The material I tend to be expected to cover is the usual palette - Stevie Wonder, Valerie, Brown Eyed Girl, I feel Good, 9 to 5, Long Train Running, Summer of 69... you get the idea. But the set always includes something more 'rocky' such as Don't Stop Believin' so I need to be able to get into some more ferocious territory in terms of gain. EDIT - that's not to say I need the amp to be able to do this via channel switching - I'm likely going to use pedals
I also play in a blues project, and I'm keen to launch my own blues group as well - probably covering Matt Schofield, Chris Cain, Josh Smith etc. So it would be great if I had an amp that will serve that job too, if possible. I think an amp that can do those blues artists justice will probably cover the function stuff too, though perhaps not necessarily the other way round (?).
Guitars: I tend to favour Strats. May go down the Telecaster route at some point and possibly 335 in the future.
What do all the pros use?
I saw a Carr Rambler on here - is that what I need?
How about a Deluxe Reverb or maybe a Twin Reverb?
Guthrie Trapp likes Princetons and Deluxes and he always has great tone.
Budget-wise I'm not looking to go into Two Rock territory, but up to around £1500-£1800 for the right amp. I need to start taking my tone more seriously and understand that a bigger initial outlay might get me to a happier place.
I understand some of you may advise that it might be my playing that's the issue, and you're correct in saying that a great player can make most things sound good. But this isn't one of those situations - I'm a decent enough player, and I've been round the houses with gear. I'm just not happy with my current rig.
Thanks for bearing with me in this therapy session/rambling.
Any advice would be warmly appreciated. Thank you.
EDIT 1 - I will read replies, but won't immediately respond as I don't want to clutter the page. Just know that I am hugely grateful to everyone who engages with this topic, and will display this by way of Wiz rewards. All the best.
EDIT 2 - Not really looking for multi-channel (despite perhaps sounding so in my rambling).