New guitar- I think the soundhole-mounted electronics have become detached in transit
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Easy to fix - if the glue doesn’t hold by itself, a small amount of superglue will do it.
It’s safe to plug into a valve guitar amp. Best to use a clean sound obviously.
I've never seen a new guitar with film over the soundhole before!
(What I really want to say is that they’ve just done the first step of removing the electronics and throwing them as far away as possible for you, but I probably shouldn’t… ;) )
It’s safe to plug into a valve guitar amp. Best to use a clean sound obviously.
I've never seen a new guitar with film over the soundhole before!
(What I really want to say is that they’ve just done the first step of removing the electronics and throwing them as far away as possible for you, but I probably shouldn’t… ;) )
I've never seen a new acoustic with film over the soundhole either. I'm not sure if the preamp with rotary controls would be heavy enough to pull the wires enough, but my worry would be if it's been rattling around loose in there it could have tugged the thin wires out at the while plastic connector or elsewhere. I assume it's the OEM model with the battery bag inside the guitar and a combined endpin jack rather than the variant with plastic battery box and jack screwed to the outside of the guitar side. The weight of the battery rattling around would certainly be enough to pull at wires, but if the battery is an the bag then it might be OK.
A number of years back somebody asked me to fit a 2nd-hand one he had bought 2nd-hand to his guitar. It came very much as shown in this other model (Matrix?) I found in an image search:
From the rubbery glue residue in that boomerang shaped recess I assumed that a piece of foam with one adhesive side had been glued in there and that the adhesive side would have been what was stuck up onto the underside of the soundboard. I found some suitable hard and thin black foam (a tiny bit thicker than the depth of the recess) with a peel-off self-adhesive side. I cleaned the plastic with electrical contact cleaner and glued the bit of foam into that recess with Evo-Stik or other brand of solvent contact cement glue and allowed it to dry completely before putting it near the guitar just in case the escaping solvents reacted with the lacquer on the guitar. I suppose I could probably have stuck it in there with double-sided tape.
I did a dry fit to line it up, fine sanded the underside of the soundhole where I was going to stick it, then smeared some 2-part epoxy on that area and let it cure completely to make it really hard and smooth before peeling the film off the foam and sticking the preamp into place.
It must still be holding firm or he would have come back to me to have it reaffixed.
I don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes. Peeling off the film from the soundhole would be a normal part of checking that the guitar works with the pickup, but if you then discover a wire has been tugged loose because the preamp wasn't stuck and was rattling loose, then you may be asked why you didn't just send it back. If this does transpire you could bluff it and say you thought it was left loose to provide you with the choice of fine alignment it in the soundhole and you thought that you had to stick it on yourself.
If you just plug it in you’ll know whether it works - assuming the battery is fitted at the factory.
I'm surprised at the soundhole film, that's going to modify the sound of the guitar dramatically and make it impossible to judge how it actually sounds until it's removed.
I removed a Fishman Sonitone with soundhole preamp from my guitar, and the preamp/control unit was simply held with foam adhesive on the V-shaped surface.
Thanks very much everyone, that's great news that it's hopefully not a massive problem! (At least as long as the electronics are still working!) :)
(b) Excellent, thanks.
(c) Me neither! It took me a minute or two to figure out what was going on when I first opened the case!
(d) That's what I was thinking... maybe I'd use them if I gigged, and I guess they're handy to have, but I literally never use them. I try them once when I get the guitar just to check they're working. I use the tuner, which is very handy... but of course this guitar doesn't even have a tuner. LOL
@BillDL Thanks! :) That was my worry too, that being loose could have damaged the electronics or even something inside the guitar.
I'm not sure exactly how it's configured as that darn protective plastic film is stopping me from getting in there to see for sure, but it does have a jack socket at the endpin.
I think mine does have foam still on it, you're quite right, that V-shaped bit you've circled in red is the bit where the adhesive bit is stuck to.
That's an excellent job you did for your friend, I'm totally in awe of people who know how to do stuff like that. I can just about screw in and out screws. And not always even that competently... :s
Don't worry, I won't peel off the protective film yet- I emailed the shop last night but haven't heard back yet, it did say they were a bit busy at the moment and might take 3-5 working days. When they get back to me I'll mention what has been said in this thread, and if they're ok with it I'll try plugging it in (with a bit of luck the volume won't be at zero on the preamp controls!), and then try removing the plastic protective film, try the controls on the preamp, and then see if I can reattach the preamp. If I can get it to hold, and the resonance goes away when the protective film is removed and the preamp isn't resting on the guitar's back, and if the preamp isn't damaged and there isn't any other damage to the guitar, I'll most likely keep it.
I think I probably could take off the protective film and still be ok- as long as I'm ok with keeping it, even if it turns out to be faulty they would still need to rectify that under warranty. But they could refuse to refund, so I think it's safer not to remove it just yet.
(a) Yep, that's what I'd have thought too. I'm guessing any shop which is putting it on the wall would remove the film before putting it out for prospective customers to try? I did try a Paramount years ago in a shop just after they'd been released, and it didn't have the protective film, at least as far as I can remember!
(b) Yep that's what it looks like on mine, too.
(a) Excellent, that's brilliant news, thanks! It's at this point that I'll say my usual, "I've led a sheltered life" thing and point out that I've never actually used superglue. Hopefully the existing glue will hold it, if not I'll order some superglue and try that.ICBM said:(a) Easy to fix - if the glue doesn’t hold by itself, a small amount of superglue will do it.
(b) It’s safe to plug into a valve guitar amp. Best to use a clean sound obviously.
(c) I've never seen a new guitar with film over the soundhole before!
(d) (What I really want to say is that they’ve just done the first step of removing the electronics and throwing them as far away as possible for you, but I probably shouldn’t… ;) )
(b) Excellent, thanks.
(c) Me neither! It took me a minute or two to figure out what was going on when I first opened the case!
(d) That's what I was thinking... maybe I'd use them if I gigged, and I guess they're handy to have, but I literally never use them. I try them once when I get the guitar just to check they're working. I use the tuner, which is very handy... but of course this guitar doesn't even have a tuner. LOL
@BillDL Thanks! :) That was my worry too, that being loose could have damaged the electronics or even something inside the guitar.
I'm not sure exactly how it's configured as that darn protective plastic film is stopping me from getting in there to see for sure, but it does have a jack socket at the endpin.
I think mine does have foam still on it, you're quite right, that V-shaped bit you've circled in red is the bit where the adhesive bit is stuck to.
That's an excellent job you did for your friend, I'm totally in awe of people who know how to do stuff like that. I can just about screw in and out screws. And not always even that competently... :s
Don't worry, I won't peel off the protective film yet- I emailed the shop last night but haven't heard back yet, it did say they were a bit busy at the moment and might take 3-5 working days. When they get back to me I'll mention what has been said in this thread, and if they're ok with it I'll try plugging it in (with a bit of luck the volume won't be at zero on the preamp controls!), and then try removing the plastic protective film, try the controls on the preamp, and then see if I can reattach the preamp. If I can get it to hold, and the resonance goes away when the protective film is removed and the preamp isn't resting on the guitar's back, and if the preamp isn't damaged and there isn't any other damage to the guitar, I'll most likely keep it.
I think I probably could take off the protective film and still be ok- as long as I'm ok with keeping it, even if it turns out to be faulty they would still need to rectify that under warranty. But they could refuse to refund, so I think it's safer not to remove it just yet.
And also assuming the volume isn't set to zero on it- I'm assuming the volume on it can be set to "silent". It also seems to have both an interior mic and a piezo in it, with a blend knob- I could be wrong, but if it were set entirely to one or the other, the other one could be broken and you wouldn't be able to tell that without getting at the controls, either.ICBM said:If you just plug it in you’ll know whether it works - assuming the battery is fitted at the factory.
Thanks! :)MartinB said:(a) I'm surprised at the soundhole film, that's going to modify the sound of the guitar dramatically and make it impossible to judge how it actually sounds until it's removed.(b) I removed a Fishman Sonitone with soundhole preamp from my guitar, and the preamp/control unit was simply held with foam adhesive on the V-shaped surface.
(a) Yep, that's what I'd have thought too. I'm guessing any shop which is putting it on the wall would remove the film before putting it out for prospective customers to try? I did try a Paramount years ago in a shop just after they'd been released, and it didn't have the protective film, at least as far as I can remember!
(b) Yep that's what it looks like on mine, too.
Maybe they cover the soundholes now to stop scorpions, spiders, etc from crawling in and nesting or laying eggs before or during transit from the Far East.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3725401/#Comment_3725401
The guys at the Geest banana warehouse that used to be in my area all had to wear gauntlets when handling the large stalks of bananas coming in from the Caribbean because of the spiders and scorpions lurking in between them.
Perhaps it's a stipulation with places like Australia that are desperate to keep out non-native species. When I used to measure up and order crates in which to pack machinery bound for Australia I had to get certificates to say that the wood had been treated to kill bugs and fungus, and I wasn't allowed to use wood shavings for packaging protection.
If only the Aussies were so keen on keeping the non indigenous humans out as flora and fauna! (;BillDL said:Maybe they cover the soundholes now to stop scorpions, spiders, etc from crawling in and nesting or laying eggs before or during transit from the Far East.https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3725401/#Comment_3725401The guys at the Geest banana warehouse that used to be in my area all had to wear gauntlets when handling the large stalks of bananas coming in from the Caribbean because of the spiders and scorpions lurking in between them.Perhaps it's a stipulation with places like Australia that are desperate to keep out non-native species. When I used to measure up and order crates in which to pack machinery bound for Australia I had to get certificates to say that the wood had been treated to kill bugs and fungus, and I wasn't allowed to use wood shavings for packaging protection.
Wow! I'm just hoping the scorpion didn't crawl in there and they put the protective film over the soundhole to keep it in there... :s :o =)BillDL said:Maybe they cover the soundholes now to stop scorpions, spiders, etc from crawling in and nesting or laying eggs before or during transit from the Far East.https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3725401/#Comment_3725401The guys at the Geest banana warehouse that used to be in my area all had to wear gauntlets when handling the large stalks of bananas coming in from the Caribbean because of the spiders and scorpions lurking in between them.Perhaps it's a stipulation with places like Australia that are desperate to keep out non-native species. When I used to measure up and order crates in which to pack machinery bound for Australia I had to get certificates to say that the wood had been treated to kill bugs and fungus, and I wasn't allowed to use wood shavings for packaging protection.
I'm cautiously optimistic that the strange resonance/reverberation is being caused by the electronics resting against the back of the guitar- it came to me that if I sort of leaned forward gently and carefully, that might move the electronics off the back of the guitar and have them hanging freely and hopefully not touching anything to reverberate against. I'm not 100% sure, as it's kind of awkward trying to play while leaning forward, but I think the resonance reduced or even went away when I leaned forward while playing it. Fingers crossed, anyway. I didn't get as far as trying it plugged in, and I still haven't heard from the shop so I'll hold off doing anything about the film until I do.
I'm sure that the shop won't be particularly keen on having it returned because they will either have to return it to Fender and then open the packaging on another guitar and check it before sending you a replacement OR re-affix the preamp themselves and (probably) sell it as an ex-demo or customer return at a reduced price. I suspect they might suggest that you remove the film, adjust the controls, and test the electrics before they make any further decisions. You might end up being offered a partial refund if the electrics work properly and you are willing to take the responsibility of reaffixing the controls yourself. Personally I would be inclined to take a partial refund if it all works well.
I wonder if Fender would be able to supply a replacement self-adhesive foam pad?
The Fishman website shows that they sell replacement battery bags, clips, and other miscellaneous spares:
https://fishmanstore.com/collections/parts-accessories
They sell 3 different shaped adhesive pads for different models (Ellipse, Ellipse Aura, and Matrix) BUT your Fishman Presys VT Plus is an OEM model so I presume spares would have to come from Fender.
https://www.fishman.com/oem-3/#1 (Page 5 of 64 - OEM-SON-GT2 I think)(a) That's kind of what I'm hoping. If I can get it working myself I basically want to keep it- I got a really good deal on it (I think!), and I can't imagine I'll ever get another one for that kind of money.BillDL said:(a) I'm sure that the shop won't be particularly keen on having it returned because they will either have to return it to Fender and then open the packaging on another guitar and check it before sending you a replacement OR re-affix the preamp themselves and (probably) sell it as an ex-demo or customer return at a reduced price. I suspect they might suggest that you remove the film, adjust the controls, and test the electrics before they make any further decisions. You might end up being offered a partial refund if the electrics work properly and you are willing to take the responsibility of reaffixing the controls yourself. Personally I would be inclined to take a partial refund if it all works well.(b) I wonder if Fender would be able to supply a replacement self-adhesive foam pad?The Fishman website shows that they sell replacement battery bags, clips, and other miscellaneous spares:They sell 3 different shaped adhesive pads for different models (Ellipse, Ellipse Aura, and Matrix) BUT your Fishman Presys VT Plus is an OEM model so I presume spares would have to come from Fender.https://www.fishman.com/oem-3/#1 (Page 5 of 64 - OEM-SON-GT2 I think)
I did try the electrics yesterday- I got tired waiting (still no reply from the shop- I hope I didn't click the wrong option in the contact form that sent it to a much-slower responder, but there was no option for "damaged"!). It seems to be working, as far as I can tell without being able to get at the controls. (And the jack socket was normal tightness, so that was nice too, I had no trouble getting the instrument cable in and out.) So that's nice. As I said, I think it has both a transducer (mic?) and undersaddle (piezo?) pickup with a blend knob, so I'm guessing it's possible that the blend could be set entirely to one or the other, and the one it's not set to might still not be working, but I'm going to tempt fate and say that hopefully that's very unlikely and I'd be very unlucky if that were the case.
(b) That's a brilliant idea if the existing adhesive has lost its stickiness, I can't believe I didn't think of that! Thanks very much as usual @BillDL ;;
Assuming I can get the existing foam off without breaking the thing, that would be a much handier solution than superglue- I'm a bit iffy about it, as I said I've never used it before and am a bit scared I'll stick my hand to my knee or something stupid and have to live like that for the rest of my life... (!) 
Or even if you can't get the exact one, I dare say you could buy generic preamp adhesive foam, and cut it to size.
Take the plastic off please. How can you tell if something isn't fit for purpose if you don't use it for that purpose. If something is wrong then there is little proof if the guitar isnt played.
I agree but the problem is the shop might not! If I can get it sorted easily myself I want to keep it, but I don't want to narrow down my options (i.e. shoot myself in the foot and be unable to return it for a refund) just in case I can't- or in case there's something more serious wrong with it that only becomes apparent when I take the plastic off.guitarjack66 said:Take the plastic off please. How can you tell if something isn't fit for purpose if you don't use it for that purpose. If something is wrong then there is little proof if the guitar isnt played.
Still heard nothing from the shop- I think tomorrow is day 5 of the "3-5 working days", so I'll give it until then until I contact them again.
Under the distance selling regulations, the buyer has the right to reasonably examine and try the goods in the same way as they would in a shop… which would involve removing the plastic. You still have a full right of return.Dave_Mc said:
I agree but the problem is the shop might not! If I can get it sorted easily myself I want to keep it, but I don't want to narrow down my options (i.e. shoot myself in the foot and be unable to return it for a refund) just in case I can't- or in case there's something more serious wrong with it that only becomes apparent when I take the plastic off.
The shop will have to remove it to repair it anyway.
Yep, you're quite right, it was just in case the shop got awkward.ICBM said:Under the distance selling regulations, the buyer has the right to reasonably examine and try the goods in the same way as they would in a shop… which would involve removing the plastic. You still have a full right of return.Dave_Mc said:
I agree but the problem is the shop might not! If I can get it sorted easily myself I want to keep it, but I don't want to narrow down my options (i.e. shoot myself in the foot and be unable to return it for a refund) just in case I can't- or in case there's something more serious wrong with it that only becomes apparent when I take the plastic off.
The shop will have to remove it to repair it anyway.
Still heard nothing back, I've contacted them again, if I don't hear anything by tomorrow I'm going to remove the film and see how it goes. It's starting to get a bit silly, I've had it for over a week now, I'll be getting close to the 14-day limit if I'm not careful. I know they said they're busy, but over a week is too long- I'd be shocked if they get back to me before tomorrow, and it's 10 days tomorrow!
I ordered a new Fender Paramount Parlor guitar which came today- unfortunately, when I took it out of its case there was a bit of a rattling noise and I think the Fender®/Fishman® Presys VT Plus soundhole-mounted electronics have become detached in transit (or maybe they were already detached). (I say "I think", because there's a protective clear plastic film over the soundhole which prevents me from investigating too much, as I don't want to remove it if it has to be sent back.)
It's new from a retailer, so I'll contact them to see what they say, but I just thought I'd ask on here in case it's an easy fix- it was a very good Black Friday price that I couldn't pass, and if I'm going to keep it and can fix it easily myself that's probably a better idea than giving it two more courier trips around Christmas time. I think I can see what looks like adhesive on one side of the electronics, and I was sort of naively hoping that it might just be a matter of pushing it back on with the existing adhesive and hoping it holds, but I realise it may be a lot more complicated than that!
There's a funny, overbearing resonance when playing, especially the lower-pitched strings and single notes which I think (hope!) is because the electronics are resting against the back of the guitar- or maybe it's the protective film over the soundhole? I don't think there's anything else wrong with the guitar, though I haven't tried the electronics to see if they're working yet- the controls are inside the guitar, behind the protective film, and the pickup might be broken or the volume might just be turned down! I also was a bit iffy about plugging an instrument cable into the guitar, because on the other acoustics I have, the socket was very stiff and I don't want to plug a cable in and then struggle to remove it if it has to be sent back! I also don't have an acoustic amp at the moment- is it safe to plug an acoustic into a valve electric guitar amp? I assume it is, but I figured it's safer to check first.
Here's a pic where hopefully you can see the problem (I can zoom in a lot on my computer, but I'm not sure you can unfortunately!)- that V-shaped matt black bit on the electronics has what I think is adhesive on it and I'm guessing that's the bit that should be stuck to the underside of the guitar's top.
Thanks very much for all your help,
Dave :)