Some non-jazz blues recommendations

Hi - was hoping you might point me to some decent blues of a non jazz variety.  I love Wes, Grant, Joe, Emily etc but wanted to try and get some none jazz lines and wanted to see what else is out there.  I just listened to John Mayer and I have no interest in repeating that particular experience.  Ideally nothing overly pentatonic based but open to most suggestions really, especially anything recent - cheers

Off top of my head, Muddy Water's, John Lee Hooker, Howling Wolf, Albert King....... list is endless

Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue ;) he did call it ‘just a blues album’ after all 

More seriously…maybe Robben Ford? Eric Gale? Ana Popovic? Bonnie Raitt? Robert Cray? 

KDS said:

Off top of my head, Muddy Water's, John Lee Hooker, Howling Wolf, Albert King....... list is endless

ah just noticed the 'not overly pentonic' comment that changes it

Thanks @lesyeuxnoirs - I know Midnight Blue back to front - it’s awesome - in fact Burrell played on my fav jazz blues tune freight trane with JC.  

I knew you would know Midnight Blue back to front  

I actually wouldn’t be too quick to write John Mayer off, for what it’s worth 

there’s a live album with Pino Palladino on bass and a cracking drummer, playing some classy blues. It’s worth it for Pino’s bass lines 

He also did a version of ‘I don’t need no doctor’ with John Scofield, and it’s brilliant. Good enough for Sco, good enough for me 

Come to think of it, I think Sco has been embracing the blues on some of his more recent outings 

menamestom said:

Not quite sure what blues is non Jazz and not pentatonic.  

Blues without and Jazz influence is pretty pentatonic by definition? I’m probably missing the requirement to be fair!

Robben Ford might be worth a look.

I was wondering the same, flat third, 'buddy' note is ket sound of blues and rock.

It is a tough ask to go for non-jazz non-pentatonic Blues.
Here is the closest I've got for you.

Derek Trucks.
Ry Cooder
Gary Clark Jnr.
Rory Gallagher

All of these artists will use pentatonic scales but expand beyond it into modal and more sophisticated harmony without being Jazz.

Jazz/experimental but bluesy artists worth checking out who are not wholly traditional jazz guitar players would be:

Bill Frisell
Marc Ribot
David Torn
Nels Cline
Daniel Lanois
Charlie Hunter
Julian Lage

menamestom said:

Not quite sure what blues is non Jazz and not pentatonic.  

Blues without and Jazz influence is pretty pentatonic by definition? I’m probably missing the requirement to be fair!

Robben Ford might be worth a look.

Ah - showing my ignorance of the area I think.  I didn’t realise that was the case.  I heard Robben Ford play on a ‘scary Goldings’ YouTube vid and he was really impressive.  

octatonic said:

It is a tough ask to go for non-jazz non-pentatonic Blues.
Here is the closest I've got for you.

Derek Trucks.
Ry Cooder
Gary Clark Jnr.
Rory Gallagher

All of these artists will use pentatonic scales but expand beyond it into modal and more sophisticated harmony without being Jazz.

Jazz/experimental but bluesy artists worth checking out who are not wholly traditional jazz guitar players would be:

Bill Frisell
Marc Ribot
David Torn
Nels Cline
Daniel Lanois
Charlie Hunter
Julian Lage

I would have included a couple of those and then drawn a blank so that's a better list than mine. 

Could also be getting into he area of non western blues like Tinariwen and Ali Farka Toure (he did an album with Ry Cooder which is what reminded me). Possibly gospel blues artists like Pop Staples and Robert Ward, probably closer to pentatonic based but a bit of a different approach. And lots of Jimmie Vaughan's solo stuff, this is going to be largely pentatonic based stuff but his phrasing bridges the gap between old school players like Lightning Hopkins and blues rock. 

EricTheWeary said:

octatonic said:

It is a tough ask to go for non-jazz non-pentatonic Blues.
Here is the closest I've got for you.

Derek Trucks.
Ry Cooder
Gary Clark Jnr.
Rory Gallagher

All of these artists will use pentatonic scales but expand beyond it into modal and more sophisticated harmony without being Jazz.

Jazz/experimental but bluesy artists worth checking out who are not wholly traditional jazz guitar players would be:

Bill Frisell
Marc Ribot
David Torn
Nels Cline
Daniel Lanois
Charlie Hunter
Julian Lage

I would have included a couple of those and then drawn a blank so that's a better list than mine. 

Could also be getting into he area of non western blues like Tinariwen and Ali Farka Toure (he did an album with Ry Cooder which is what reminded me). Possibly gospel blues artists like Pop Staples and Robert Ward, probably closer to pentatonic based but a bit of a different approach. And lots of Jimmie Vaughan's solo stuff, this is going to be largely pentatonic based stuff but his phrasing bridges the gap between old school players like Lightning Hopkins and blues rock. 

Talking Timbuktu is a fantastic album.
I played that so much.
Might need to revisit.

Ai Du is an amazing song.

joeW said:

I heard Robben Ford play on a ‘scary Goldings’ YouTube vid and he was really impressive.  

Yes, that guy will make it big some day. :)

Matt Schofield
Scott McKeon
Jack Pearson
Mike Zito

My advice would be to listen to non-guitar players.

I think it's a shame to blow out John Mayer. I'm not a massive fan of him as a person, but the section of his live album that is his just blues trio is superb. 

I've always liked blues, my two long term faves being SRV and Gary Moore, but the one person these days that I think is absolutely fantastic is Ainsley Lister, I think his solos are really cool. 

The answer to most questions about the blues is Freddie King.

axisus said:

I think it's a shame to blow out John Mayer. I'm not a massive fan of him as a person, but the section of his live album that is his just blues trio is superb. 

I've always liked blues, my two long term faves being SRV and Gary Moore, but the one person these days that I think is absolutely fantastic is Ainsley Lister, I think his solos are really cool. 

I'm with you on that - I'm certainly not a die hard JM fan but equally I'm not anti him - But his live work is far better IMO - In part I think it is down to the fact he can play what he wants to play and add a few good blues covers to his live act - I'm guessing teh record companies want a commercial JM, which ventures more to hairdressers/lift music at times - But when I've seen his live stuff, be it on album or Y Tube, it is always good 

Yngwie did a blues album a few years ago.

guitars4you said:

axisus said:

I think it's a shame to blow out John Mayer. I'm not a massive fan of him as a person, but the section of his live album that is his just blues trio is superb. 

I've always liked blues, my two long term faves being SRV and Gary Moore, but the one person these days that I think is absolutely fantastic is Ainsley Lister, I think his solos are really cool. 

I'm with you on that - I'm certainly not a die hard JM fan but equally I'm not anti him - But his live work is far better IMO - In part I think it is down to the fact he can play what he wants to play and add a few good blues covers to his live act - I'm guessing teh record companies want a commercial JM, which ventures more to hairdressers/lift music at times - But when I've seen his live stuff, be it on album or Y Tube, it is always good 

You might be describing a previous version of JM...'Try!' is over 19 years old...and he's been having a great time on the road with 'Dead & Co' for the last decade!

If anyone needs to see what he was all about in his prime, watch the 'Where The Light Is' film.

I peaked at 'Born & Raised' and have been unable to connect with any subsequent releases.

Slash?
 On a more serious note, I’d have thought this is the exact reverse of typical situations where blues guys move towards jazz to escape pentatonics.

Standard blues (Mississippi/ Chicago/ British Invasion etc) is mainly pentatonic based. It’s like asking for jazz without any 2-5-1 or modal playing.

thanks to everyone for the suggestions - I have plenty of names to add to a playlist.  Time to transcribe and plagiarise!

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

I forgot to mention Kenny Wayne Shepherd. Definitely add him to the list for straight-ahead non-jazz blues  :)

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

Tab Benoit, Eric Gales, Chris Duarte, Tommy Castro are all worth checking out - More blues based 

Try some of Brian Setzer's work - solo projects or indeed his big band orchestra 

Duke Robbilard - Plus Fabulous Thunderbirds (one of my fav's as like JJ Cale, the song come first and the solo is there to enrich teh song and not to own it) 

And if you want to go back a bit then try Louis Prima  - No/little guitar but it is where Jump n jive and wail comes from 

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

the pentatonic is essential a simple sketch pad to fall back on - As you say add those notes to 'jazz' it up - 2nd (9th) flat 3rd, 3rd, 4th (as a passing note to add colour/tension), to flat 5 and 5th is a simple chromatic run - Play around with it, going up down, listen to where you start, finish, land, pass etc and you'll hear many sax players licks as you play around with it - Then 5th, 6th and dominant 7th all work when required 

Even a flat 9th has its place when used right 

guitars4you said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

the pentatonic is essential a simple sketch pad to fall back on - As you say add those notes to 'jazz' it up - 2nd (9th) flat 3rd, 3rd, 4th (as a passing note to add colour/tension), to flat 5 and 5th is a simple chromatic run - Play around with it, going up down, listen to where you start, finish, land, pass etc and you'll hear many sax players licks as you play around with it - Then 5th, 6th and dominant 7th all work when required 

Even a flat 9th has its place when used right 

Then you find you are no longer playing blues. You are playing jazz.

Litterick said:

guitars4you said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

the pentatonic is essential a simple sketch pad to fall back on - As you say add those notes to 'jazz' it up - 2nd (9th) flat 3rd, 3rd, 4th (as a passing note to add colour/tension), to flat 5 and 5th is a simple chromatic run - Play around with it, going up down, listen to where you start, finish, land, pass etc and you'll hear many sax players licks as you play around with it - Then 5th, 6th and dominant 7th all work when required 

Even a flat 9th has its place when used right 

Then you find you are no longer playing blues. You are playing jazz.

Nah, blues is all-encompassing and open to interpretation by the player.

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

guitars4you said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

the pentatonic is essential a simple sketch pad to fall back on - As you say add those notes to 'jazz' it up - 2nd (9th) flat 3rd, 3rd, 4th (as a passing note to add colour/tension), to flat 5 and 5th is a simple chromatic run - Play around with it, going up down, listen to where you start, finish, land, pass etc and you'll hear many sax players licks as you play around with it - Then 5th, 6th and dominant 7th all work when required 

Even a flat 9th has its place when used right 

Then you find you are no longer playing blues. You are playing jazz.

Nah, blues is all-encompassing and open to interpretation by the player.

You beat me to it - SRV and many players use more than 5 notes to play the blues  - Granted it can take you into fusion based areas , but it is how you use the 'additional' notes that counts - And as always you don't use all the additional notes , all the time

guitars4you said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

guitars4you said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Litterick said:

Blues is essentially pentatonic, isn't it? I cannot imagine how a guitarist could play blues in diatonic scales. But perhaps I have been missing something. Does anyone know any blues songs that are not pentatonic?

Add a flat 5th, a tweak towards a major 3rd, a chromatic run from dominant 7th to root and you're already two thirds of the way there. Jimmy Vaughan favours the 2nd for a bit of colour etc... Every note has a purpose in blues.

the pentatonic is essential a simple sketch pad to fall back on - As you say add those notes to 'jazz' it up - 2nd (9th) flat 3rd, 3rd, 4th (as a passing note to add colour/tension), to flat 5 and 5th is a simple chromatic run - Play around with it, going up down, listen to where you start, finish, land, pass etc and you'll hear many sax players licks as you play around with it - Then 5th, 6th and dominant 7th all work when required 

Even a flat 9th has its place when used right 

Then you find you are no longer playing blues. You are playing jazz.

Nah, blues is all-encompassing and open to interpretation by the player.

You beat me to it - SRV and many players use more than 5 notes to play the blues  - Granted it can take you into fusion based areas , but it is how you use the 'additional' notes that counts - And as always you don't use all the additional notes , all the time

It is not the number of notes that matters. It is the scale. Adding grace notes to a blues melody does not alter the scale. Jazzing up a blues songs with chromatic runs and such like changes it into something else.