Playing classical on steel strings

I'm going to semi retire next year and plan on learning classical guitar. It's been on the to-do list for to long. 

Had planned to buy a half decent classical guitar but now pondering other options.

I have a reasonable steel strung guitar that I haven't touched for so many years that the strings are literally rusty.

I used to love playing acoustic though and maybe I'll get back into that.

So I'm toying with the idea of treating myself to a nice acoustic instead and wondering if I can kill 2 birds.

So what are thoughts on playing classical on a steely?

I have no plans to get to concert level but I would like to give myself the chance to get as good as I can get.

Sorry for the essay and would welcome any thoughts.

Well you’d need a new/recut nut as nylon strings are wider. Probably a new saddle  as you’d need the action higher. 

@drofluf is right but if you understand what you may need to adjust, why not give it a try? I have classical strings (with ball ends, not the standard classical strings that you tie at the bridge) and have not had to adjust anything other than raise the bridge a little. No nut slot widening, no bridge slot widening. Here is my guitar, my proof:

Thanks for the replies.

I think I wasn't clear in my post.

I'm not thinking about putting nylon strings on a regular acoustic.

I'm thinking about playing classical on a steel strung guitar.

relic245 said:

...
I'm thinking about playing classical on a steel strung guitar.

Classical style, classic pieces...no problem: get on with it ;)

relic245 said:

Thanks for the replies.

I think I wasn't clear in my post.

I'm not thinking about putting nylon strings on a regular acoustic.

I'm thinking about playing classical on a steel strung guitar.

In which case it’s eminently doable without any issue. Classical is really “just” fingerpicking but a different style of music. Some tunes may sound “better” on different type of guitar but I’m a firm believer in the “you can play any style of music on any type of guitar” school of thought. 

relic245 said:

Thanks for the replies.

I think I wasn't clear in my post.

I'm not thinking about putting nylon strings on a regular acoustic.

I'm thinking about playing classical on a steel strung guitar.

There's nothing to stop you playing classical pieces on a steel-strung acoustic. The nut width might be an issue, as classical guitar strings are a bit further apart than a standard steel string. Some of that makes it easier to play the correct strings with your plucking fingers and to fret the correct strings on the fretboard without hitting or muting another string. Classical guitarists (AFAIR, it's been a while since my last lesson, and I didn't - 1973 in fact) don't do left hand muting, so it's important to be accurate. 

Before I bought a real classical during lockdown, I was running through classical pieces on a Martin 0-16 NY, which has a wider nut than usual (not quite classical width, but close) and using Silk'n'Steel strings, which have lower tension on the wound strings. 

If you don't mind me saying... there's a difference between "learning classical guitar" - which is a fairly rigid/fixed technique probably best learned using a classical guitar - and "learning some nice classical pieces", which you can do using any technique that works for you. Either way it'll be fun! :-) 

Worth having some lessons and brushing up your sight reading. 

I agree with @drofluf that you can play any style of music on any guitar you like. However, if you really intend to learn classical guitar, then you'll only get the full benefit by using a classical guitar.

Also, the tone and response from nylon strings is different to that of steel, and part of that comes from the nails on your picking hand. They're filed in a way to glide of the string using part nail and part flesh – you won't achieve the same sort of dynamics with steel strings. So while a piece still might sound nice on an acoustic, it won't necessarily sound like how the composer intended.

Overall, it depends how serious you are and whether or not you want to learn classical guitar or classical pieces. My advice would be get a half decent classical to get the most out of it, or use an acoustic just to learn the compositions.

I used to own a Lowden O, and mainly played classical pieces on it.

As long as you enjoy playing, that is what matters.

beed84 said:

Overall, it depends how serious you are and whether or not you want to learn classical guitar or classical pieces. My advice would be get a half decent classical to get the most out of it, or use an acoustic just to learn the compositions.

That's a really good point. I'm not sure at the moment so perhaps that is a better question now than what kind of guitar to get.

relic245 said:

beed84 said:

Overall, it depends how serious you are and whether or not you want to learn classical guitar or classical pieces. My advice would be get a half decent classical to get the most out of it, or use an acoustic just to learn the compositions.

That's a really good point. I'm not sure at the moment so perhaps that is a better question now than what kind of guitar to get.

If you do decide to go the classical guitar route, I'd recommend finding a classical guitar tutor and working through grades. Doing so will help you develop correct technique and posture, and you can go away with something to work towards. Otherwise you might struggle to get going properly. What I will say is that, although it's a commitment, it can be quite addictive once you get going. Good luck whatever you decide  :)

MartinB said:

...
I immediately think of John Renbourne as having a relatively "classical" right hand style, he was on very light strings and his repertoire drew more from earlier lute composers (Dowland etc) which have been adapted for guitar than he did from later classical guitar composers.

I immediately thought of Clive Carroll as a more contemporary example (Clive is pretty well connected to Renbourn too).

MartinB said:

I took classical guitar lessons through my teens, and I feel like I had to substantially re-learn my right hand position and stroke to get a tone I liked on steel strings. You can start to approach a classical guitar right hand style with lower tension steel strings, especially if the spacing at the bridge is reasonably wide, but it won't entirely work in the same way. I do occasionally break out what pieces I can remember even though I don't own a classical guitar these days, and I just keep my steel string right hand position for those, but I wouldn't do serious study like that.

I immediately think of John Renbourne as having a relatively "classical" right hand style, he was on very light strings and his repertoire drew more from earlier lute composers (Dowland etc) which have been adapted for guitar than he did from later classical guitar composers.

Yes to all of that. Interesting perspective @MartinB coming FROM classical TO acoustic. 

Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned the setup changes needed to put wider, lower tension nylon strings on an acoustic. An acoustic would have to have the nut grooves refiled and the neck relief adjusted to accommodate nylon. The tops of classicals are much less braced, the ‘gluing up’ process and the build generally less strong than in an acoustic. There is no truss rod either. 

Steel strings played in classical stylee rips my nails to shreds. 

There's no reason why you cannot play classical pieces on a steel string guitar - I do occasionally. However, if you want to learn a proper classical technique then a classical guitar with its wider flat fretboard and nylon strings is probably best. But, If you want to try out classical pieces on a steel string guitar for fun then do it - it won't hurt and you could have a lot of fun. You may find it more comfortable with lighter gauge steel strings. Thomastik-Infeld make some very good steel string sets with a more classical sound and feel.
For a while I exclusively played on classical guitars due to the damage steel strings were causing my nails. However, since concentrating on improving my nail strength and health I can now switch between steel and nylon strings without issue.
Thomastik-Infeld also make a set of steel strings specifically designed for classical guitars, which I use on my Brook Cary (Brook's standard classical model) to good effect.

I can't really play classical properly but I like to muck about with it on my steel string ... stuff like this rather than any proper formed pieces 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNtUScGLUNU

drofluf said:
Classical is really “just” fingerpicking but a different style of music. Some tunes may sound “better” on different type of guitar but I’m a firm believer in the “you can play any style of music on any type of guitar” school of thought. 

I used to think this, and I certainly believe that you can play what you want on whatever sort of guitar, but (as others have said above), the "fingerpicking" that you use on nylon is completely different to that used on a steel-string. 

My introduction to this was Bill Kanengiser's video from years ago and - thanks to the magic of YouTube - you can watch it for free:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ36c3_6jks&t=1089s

That was a complete revelation for me, and changed the tone I was getting from my nylon guitar overnight, not least because I started shaping my nails properly and pushing into the string.

It is so easy to sound crap on a nylon but the more effort you put in, the more you get out and, IMHO, the repertoire is more interesting as well, especially more modern music (rather than the crusty old Spanish stuff), e.g. Andrew York, William Lovelady, Marek Pasieczny.

These days I rarely play steel-string or electric. 

Classical music on a steel string guitar? How ridiculous!

=)
OK, so I know it's been posted elsewhere previously, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwhWbWKaSLk

You can play classical pieces on a steel-strung guitar, I often do.
Some pieces are harder to play since the strings are so close together. With smaller hands and fingers this would be easier.
Nevertheless, it is possible, but requires a bit more skill I think.

Classical guitars usually have a 52mm wide nut, acoustics are often 44mm, sometimes 43mm.
I prefer 46mm acoustics, which are rare. So you can see there is quite a range

Predictably, most classical pieces do sound better on nylon guitars, and the strings are kinder to your nails.

What is your old guitar?
Some older ones are awful, and you should make sure you are not starting out with a massive disadvantage.

ToneControl said:

You can play classical pieces on a steel-strung guitar, I often do.
Some pieces are harder to play since the strings are so close together. With smaller hands and fingers this would be easier.
Nevertheless, it is possible, but requires a bit more skill I think.

Classical guitars usually have a 52mm wide nut, acoustics are often 44mm, sometimes 43mm.
I prefer 46mm acoustics, which are rare. So you can see there is quite a range

Predictably, most classical pieces do sound better on nylon guitars, and the strings are kinder to your nails.

What is your old guitar?
Some older ones are awful, and you should make sure you are not starting out with a massive disadvantage.

My old guitar is a mid range Yamaha. I'm not at home so can't tell you the model but it cost £400 about 25 years ago. Based on all of that I'd say it's probably quite good but far from top end.

Sorry for the lack of precision in my description